Transcript: LPAC TV Weekly Report with Lyndon LaRouche, Wednesday, Oct. 19, 2011
October 20, 2011 • 9:18AM

WHAT IS A CREDIT SYSTEM: A CONCEPTION OF MANKIND THAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH, NOW AND IN THE FUTURE

JOHN HOEFLE: Hello welcome to the LaRouche PAC Weekly Report for October 19th, 2011. I'm John Hoefle, and with me in the studio today, are Jason Ross of the Basement, Sky Shields of the Basement, and Lyndon LaRouche. Good morning, Lyn.
LYNDON LAROUCHE: Good morning.
Now, the subject today is what is about to happen to the world, especially the United States, but the trans-Atlantic region in general, that we're on the verge of the greatest financial collapse in modern history. Exactly what day this is going to occur, as an event, is uncertain. It's in the nature of things that what you get is not a definite date that something is going to happen, but a definite date about which it might happen; it will happen within that limit.
We're now in the limits. We're now trapped, unless we do something rather sudden, to make changes, about to be trapped by the greatest financial collapse in all modern history. And the days are to be counted. The actual days of the registered catastrophe may be postponed, but the fact of the catastrophe is irreversible. That's what's running out of time, and we're at the point we're running out of time. The agony may be prolonged for a short period of time, but the crisis is now, essentially in the present form, is irreversible.

The only way we could save this, is one way, which I'll try to indicate, but first, I'll make a general comment, on one of the problems of forecasting. That you will find, as I have found, to my dismay, even though I was never surprised by it, but I was sort of taken aback, that most of even our own people, my own associates, still tend to react on the basis of what are called "popular trends"; on the basis, of people will say, "Well, when will this happen," and so forth, that sort of thing. But actually, — and they all will go by popular opinion, and popular opinion, meaning the point at which the people recognize something as having happened. The big problem is this, the common problem, is most people believe that events are determined politically, according to popular opinion, as manifested, for example, by the popular opinion of Wall Street, or the popular opinion of people in general. And the attempt to forecast, or to understand great crises by the standard of popular opinion is the greatest foolishness, and the most popular foolishness practiced in society today.
It flows partly from the idea of democracy, and other kinds of foolishness: The belief that the popular will, in terms of those people who participate in supporting one conclusion as opposed to another, one prediction as opposed to another, or that the vote in an election campaign, or something like that, determines the course of history. It does not. The course of history is going to determine the value or the competence of the opinions expressed, the other way around. Disaster will strike, and they won't know it's coming, because they're counting on popular opinion. They assume that what you can register as popular opinion as by polls and other methods, are going to determine the way in which policies of nations are determined — they're not. They're determined by other considerations. And it's getting rid of the worship of popular opinion, which is the most important task for humanity today, especially in our own country right now.
This system is finished: It's finished now. The day in which it's officially finished, is irrelevant, it's already finished. Which means that, as of now, you must now, make a decision or prepare a decision to be implemented, which is contrary to all popular opinion, including official opinion. In other words, events are determined, not by popular opinion, they're determined by the effects of popular opinion. And usually the judgment is wrong!

I've been successfully forecasting, since — well, in forecasting, since 1956. I forecast a 1957 breakdown, the greatest recession in the whole postwar period to that time, which hit just exactly as I forecast. All my forecasts have been correct. But all of the other forecasts, which I've run into, over all these decades, have been wrong, consistently, and leading economists will admit that. That is, admit that their system doesn't work. They keep making it, because they believe they have to put up a show of using accepted criteria, for defining what a crisis is going to be, and when it's going to come. And therefore, they stick to that forecasting method, which is incompetent, intrinsically incompetent. And it's based largely on popular opinion factors.
And therefore, reality pronounces a death sentence, often, on popular opinion, in terms of the result.
So therefore, it's important that we understand, that forecasting, as it's properly done, today, by officially institutions, generally, or by people ordinarily, the reliance on popular opinion and the interrelationship between popular opinion and the methods of forecasting, is the greatest source of wreckage. For example, in the case of the United States, since the assassination of John F. Kennedy, there has been no net progress, in the economy of the United States, as measured in net figures. And yet, we've been having forecasting all these years, and I've gone through one after the other, there's been a countdown, ever since Jack Kennedy was killed! And we've been going to Hell every step of the way, since that time. And all the figures that said there was ever a recovery, there were upturns relative to the trend, but not net upturns in reality. In terms of physical economy, the condition of the people of the United States, and of Europe, has been worse, with the one exception of the recovery from the war in Europe, and there was actually some reconstruction, in France and in Germany, and elsewhere in Europe; and even in England. But most of this occurred, by the time Jack Kennedy was killed. And from that point on, the U.S. economy has been going down per capita and in terms of all physical parameters. Our infrastructure, so-called, all these other factors.
So we've been in a decline. What we're approaching now is not a recession or a depression. What we're experiencing now is a breakdown crisis, in which the economy breaks down.
Now, the British are prepared for this. They've come up with a policy, which the royal family has emphasized, that the population of the planet must be reduced, from about 7 billion people, to 1 or less, in a very short time. If you look at the reality of the present breakdown crisis, itself, we are very much in that direction, especially in the trans-Atlantic region. At this point, the Pacific region is not declining at that rate; there's actually a present recovery in progress in China and in Russia, relative to the previous conditions. But in the Western Hemisphere, no. There is none. In the trans-Atlantic region, there is a general breakdown crisis, which has been going on, since about the time that Jack Kennedy was assassinated. That's the reality. And all these ideas, "do you fee] better, Mrs. Jones?" is not competent forecasting. And that's the problem we face.
Now, this also affects what the criteria are, for what we do to reverse this collapse, and it is a general collapse, and it's occurring now: And in its present form, under present rules, under this President, under the present Republican Party candidates, the doom of the United States is sealed! And therefore the popular opinion, like the voting for Obama, was the worst piece of stupidity by the American people ever conceived of!

And the Republican candidates today, in terms of what they're proposing, are no better. There are many Republicans who are intelligent people, and who have intelligent views, on many aspects of life. But in terms of the Republican Party's Presidential candidacy and similar candidacies, the overall package of what the government is planned to be, after the next election, is doomed! All these parties are doomed by their conception of what the priorities are that have to be adopted, to save the economy and reverse a general collapse already in process. A similar situation exists in Europe.
Now, there are people who are now beginning to disbelieve in all these ideas and forecasts of recovery. But as of now, there is officially, on the books, in Europe, and the United States, among the whole majority of authorities on record, there is no competence, and there is nothing standing in the way of a general breakdown crisis of the trans-Atlantic region. And unfortunately, the breakdown of the trans-Atlantic region will lead to a breakdown of the Asia-Pacific region, as well.
So therefore, mankind is, presently, imminently doomed, by its present policymaking.
Now, there are forces at play, in which I'm involved, which is prepared to take certain actions, which would reverse this trend. Those actions are largely situated, for their authorship, in Russia, China, and some other countries, oriented toward the Pacific region, as opposed to the trans-Atlantic region. But there is nothing at play now, inside the United States officially, or inside the trans-Atlantic region, which portends any recovery, from an absolute breakdown of the economies of those regions.
We're now at the doom of civilization as we've now known it, unless we've now known it, unless there is a sudden, improbable reversal of this. And what I'm proposing is, politically, the improbable solution. But I know better. At the same time, there is a possible solution, it just hasn't been adopted yet. And our concern today, therefore, should be, how do we get the programs which mean an actual recovery, into place immediately? Now, of course, that means getting Obama immediately out of the Presidency. If we don't get Obama out of the Presidency, both the United States and the trans-Atlantic region is doomed!
This man must be thrown out of office, on legitimate reasons. One is his policies. He's committed frauds, he's committed abuses against the Constitution, he's impeachable, immediately, or put through the process of impeachment, immediately. And if there are any patriots in the United States, they intend to bring about the impeachment of this President, now! Not later, now! Get him out, because as long as he's President, this nation is grave peril of its immediate existence.
And that's the general situation we face. But there are options, which would lead to an immediate recovery, and we've been working on them; they exist. But the problem is, they don't have the political support they need. And therefore, you can be sitting, amid a dying nation, and a dying trans-Atlantic set of nations, in the immediate future, in the weeks and months ahead, a collapse in the immediate weeks ahead is almost certain, unless there's a change in policy; and that's what we've come to.
So the problem here is that popular opinion still believes that popular opinion, as manifest by elections, or votes by members of Congress and so forth, that these kinds of popular opinion, determine the course of history. They do not. There are certain definite decisions that have to be made. You don't have an open choice of all of these possible decisions, you have only those decisions.
Now, what is that, for example? We have a policy called NAWAPA. It was created, actually, it was intended to be put through by John F. Kennedy, if he had not been assassinated. This is key program for recovery of the United States. That is, without a NAWAPA plan in operation during this period, there's no likelihood of a recovery of the U.S. economy. It's not the only factor, but it's a decisive, turning factor.
So there are things, and various kinds of programs. For example, we must eliminate all the Green policies. The Green policies, if they're maintained, will result in the absolute destruction of civilization, at a very rapid rate. It'll be mass murder: If you're voting for the Green policy, you're for the death of yourself and your neighbor. So those policies have to be dumped.
We have to go back to a high-technology, capital-intensive project. We have to put the — well, here's the things we have to do: We have to adopt a program which is an immediate recovery program, based on Glass-Steagall. Glass-Steagall will save the nation from an immediate collapse. But it needs something else, the creation of a credit system, to replace the present monetarist system, to go along with that. Without that reform, there's no chance of saving the United States. In other words, we have to get rid of the Green policy, immediately. We have to go back to a high-technology, high energy-flux-density policy; otherwise, there's no chance of saving the United States from early extinction. So that is necessary.
We also have to go into these very specific kinds of high-technology programs, but Glass-Steagall will stop the crisis.
The lie that's out, is the lie that's being put out by Wall Street & company, is that if you impose Glass-Steagall, you'll shut down the banks. Therefore, there's an attempt to intimidate people against Glass-Steagall, which is the only road for recovery of the of the United States — it will not give you the recovery, but it's the road to recovery; there's no way in which you can have a recovery without Glass-Steagall. Now, Glass-Steagall will shut down certain banks. Six very large, and stupid banks! Which are — and you have then, thousands of other banking institutions, which will not be shut down by Glass-Steagall, but will be helped by Glass-Steagall! So those who are saying that "Glass-Steagall will shut down the banks" are lying! Some banks, big banks will go down. They should go down! They're diseases, not banks. Hmm?
But the problem then, is, once we apply Glass-Steagall, which we must do, immediately, then we do have a problem! We have a problem that, this time, Franklin Roosevelt's Glass-Steagall wouldn't quite work as well as it did under Franklin Roosevelt. The reason is, that we have so little production left, in the United States, so little productive employment left in the United States. We don't have productive jobs! We have fake jobs! Things that people are paid for to keep their mouths shut.
So we have to establish a recovery program, which is a high-technology-oriented recovery program, and we have to bring it up to scale, both in terms of numbers of people productively employed, percentage of the population productively employed, and in terms of the intensity, the energy-flux-density, that is, the degree of capital-intensity of production. For example, without a program which includes NAWAPA as an immediate action program, as part of a recovery program, there's no chance of saving the nation. It'll come down now, and it's already coming down.
So therefore, the important thing is, how do we get this thing going? What we have to do, is what is called a different kind of system: We have to go to a system, which is based on credit, not money. In other words, it will have the same function as money, but it will be a credit system — that is, the Federal government will create an allowance for Federal credit, to be uttered by and processed through, the banking system, as a credit system, through the Congress. What we'll be going back to is a replacement of the dead present system, by going back to a Hamiltonian system, a National Banking System.
So the Federal government will create credit, which will be in the amount estimated for a full recovery. Hmm? That credit will go through, directly through Federal projects which are Federally funded, such as NAWAPA. It will go through other projects, which are recovery projects, of rebuilding businesses, rebuilding productive firms. These will tend to be concentrated in increased technology, increased investment ratios, capital investment.

So, physical capital investment must be increased, in general. We will use the existing banking system in two ways: First of all, Federal credit, going back to a Hamiltonian principle, will give us the credit needed, to move toward what we call "true full employment." That's the essential thing. That, in turn, will require an increase in capital-intensity and technological productivity. So these measures will give us an economy, and it will based on Federal credit; it will mean the use of Federal credit directly by government, and the use of credit granted by government, to what are considered, worthy investment enterprises. And the object is get a balanced recovery of the full economy of the United States, engaged in real production not make-work.
And that's the only solution. And that's the situation: Do we have the guts to force through — get this President out of office, that's the first thing that has to be done! If we don't get this President out of office, now, you're not going to have a United States! And your doomed is hopeless. And you can not, based on votes by members of Congress, or the opinions of members of Congress, or the opinions of other people of so-called officials; they don't count! Because their opinions are worthless. Their opinions presently do not provide for a recovery! Their opinions presently are against any recovery measures!
So therefore, it's the people's own public opinion, which in general, is their own worst enemy! After Obama, for example. And that's our problem.
And the problem lies in the weaknesses of the mental outlook of many, and most of our citizens, who do not yet understand what the nature of the crisis is. Because they're going by same old opinion-making, which led us into a disaster, from the time of the death of John F. Kennedy! We have been going to Hell, step by step, by step, by step! Ever since John F. Kennedy was killed. And we've done nothing in the meantime, reverse that trend. We've done things to fight against that trend, but they have not measured up to the standard required to reverse that trend! And therefore, popular opinion, popular opinion of newspapers and so forth, is worse than absolutely worthless on this question! There has to be a revolutionary change in outlook, toward a Glass-Steagall system; Glass-Steagall is fundamental. You can say, honestly to every American, that if we put Glass-Steagall through properly, now, we can save the United States, and we can save other parts of the world. But if we don't, we're doomed!
But we also have to go beyond that. We have to go into an understanding of the measures to cause a recovery. Glass-Steagall will save the nation from disintegration, but it will no give you a recovery. We have to go to a Federal credit system, a Hamiltonian system, a national credit system, in order to get a recovery, and so does the rest of the world.
We have help from China and Russia, and potentially India, and other countries in the Asian- oriented section. We have the potential there. But it won't work by itself. We, in the United States, must actually unite with these nations of Asia. The United States must enter into a cooperation immediately, a virtual alliance, something which Russia is proposing right now; from Russia, we're getting a proposal for a revival of SDI, the Strategic Defense Initiative, is coming out of Russia, in a new form. It's based, this time, on space, on threats from space. And measures that have to be taken, in space, to defense the people of the United States and similar kinds of programs. So this kind of an SDE, which it's called now, in Russia, which is the equivalent to my SDI definition, back then; so SDI is back, my SDI is back in that sense. And the bringing of the United States into a direct alliance with China and with Russia, now, on this program, and other nations coming in, is the global impact requirement to save this civilization.
And without those conceptions of ideas, which are alien, at present, to the press, and to popular opinion generally, without the installation of those ideas, there's no chance for civilization on this planet in the period ahead. We have been declining in the trans-Atlantic region, ever since John F. Kennedy was killed. And we're now going at an accelerated rate. If we don't change our direction of thinking, if we don't get away from this stupidity of so-called press-oriented popular opinion, and get back to a solid kind of approach, we don't have a chance. And we're right now on the edge. We're either going to make that decision, which I've indicated, in the very short term, of kiss the United States good-bye!
SKY SHIELDS: You went through, in the last couple of days, I just want to draw out some of the points you've been making — what you're laying out is something completely different than anything that's ever been, than anything that's being proposed right now; but taking some of the best elements that been of everything that's been done in the past, and just amplifying them on the basis of their principle.
For instance, the idea of, you're saying, you begin with the state that we need to be in: You begin with an understanding of NAWAPA. You begin with the state that you want humanity to be. That defines everything. That's a whole different idea of budgeting. I don't know if you want to go through at all, what you've gone through earlier on the question of capital budget under those circumstances, but that's the basis for all, everything that credit generation is, at that point, is defined by that future state.
LAROUCHE: One thing I could add to that, which is crucial: That the economy has to be looked at as a physical economy, not a monetary process. That's the key problem. In other words, the actual, physical changes in the economy, per capita and per square kilometer, those changes are the measure of progress. And we've been talking about a money economy, and people are counting money as they choose to count money, including worthless expenditure of money, for example. So therefore, we're not looking at this as a physical economy. I look at this as a physical economy. I operate on the basis of something which is known to leading economists, but not known to economists generally: The concept of a credit system, which I laid out, for example, in a short form, on Sept. 30th of this year, in one presentation I made. [National Address webcast, http://www.larouchepac.com/webcasts/20110930.html]
We have to go to a credit system rather than a monetarist system: And under a monetarist system, the rules of behavior are completely different. The problem is, is under the present monetarist system, the rules of behavior, both political behavior and other behavior, is leading us toward destruction! We have been going to the edge of destruction because of those beliefs, which are, we should say, the Wall Street mentality beliefs.
What we have to do, is thinking in terms of physical production and the physical effects of production, and how are the credit system works. For example, one point is this: What is a credit system? A credit system is the difference between mankind and a beast. Because in the credit system, we believe that the work that is done, the investments that are made, the expenditures that are made, by a generation which is now about to die, has to be continued as progress by another generation. And on the basis, to do that, we require a system of credit, where we go constantly into an equivalent of debt by a monetarist standard; debt, it's a debt-run operation, but it's based on physical objectives. It's not just simply how much money you put out there, as debt, to prime the pump of the economy: It's what's the physical value, the physical values of the nature which are required to actually increase the productive powers of labor per capita and per square kilometer.
That's the difference between mankind and the beast. Mankind gives credit. What's credit? Credit is the debt you go into, to build up the productivity of the coming generation. So by giving credit to those who are yet to be born, you create the opportunity for realization of the meaning of the life of those who are about to die. That is, when society gives, to a generation about to be born, gives them means to increase the productive powers of labor of mankind as a whole, and the benefits of labor to mankind, the dead people are now living, in the sense that it is the credit they created, whether in money forms, or in scientific contributions and discoveries: That credit, which brings the next generation into a higher level and prevents it from sliding back into an old level, that is the essence of economy.
That's the meaning of a credit, as is understood by the founders of this nation. That was the original Constitution, was based on the idea of a credit system: Is, we invest in the future of humanity. Those who die, live, by creating the credit which causes the increase of the productive powers of labor, in the coming generation! So the dead human beings, never really die, as a factor in history. The contributions they make, to future generations, live on. And only the human species has that kind of immortality. We all die. But we make something of our lives, while we have them! We make something which is given to the coming generation, to maintain what we accomplished, and to go further, beyond. That's real progress.
When you talk about profit on money, you're talking about death, you're talking about a system of death, a system of destruction. You must invest in the future of mankind, in not in a future of a document, or a future of money. Yes, you will do that, because the currency system will respond to this. But the essence of this thing is, you are building up the future of mankind: You give credit, the living give credit, to the cause of improving and maintaining the economy of the future. Mankind progresses through scientific and technological progress, through changes in progress. We're now in a process, we're going to galactic processes. And today, if you want to be a real person, you have to think about galactic processes, now. And within this galaxy, because part of our weather is determined by this galaxy, not by the local neighborhood.
And so, this kind of thinking is the crucial thing. It's a conception of mankind. It's a conception of the immortality of mankind. Shall we say, the immortality of the individual human soul, which, by participating and contributing to the development of mankind's power in the universe, mankind becomes an immortal species. And those who have died, by participating in the credit system, are participating in immortality by helping to create it.
SHIELDS: You, in a recent addendum: You've had your "Three Steps to Recovery?" you wrote a second paper, a shorter one, as an addendum ["The Real Human Mind"]. But what you went through there on the structure of time, from the standpoint of the individual human creative process, there, it seems like exactly what you said there, about these different — that it's not simply a linear time, there's not some simply predefined future state that's dragging you forward, and it's not some simply defined past state that's pushing you forward; in fact, it's not linear at all, that sounds like what you're talking about reifying here, with the implementation of a credit system.
LAROUCHE: Exactly.
SHIELDS: Taking exactly what you've got as the creative process of the individual, but making that societal.
LAROUCHE: The thing to re-emphasize, is that I'm putting something absolutely new out, in saying this. This was the policy of the founders of the United States! This was the basis of the design of the Federal Constitution of the United States! This was a credit system, under the First and Second National Bank of the United States: I'm proposing, essentially, a return to the Hamiltonian National Banking System, which that fascist President Jackson, shut down! Shut down, on behalf of London, and on behalf of the Wall Street gang, including Martin Van Buren, who's the guy who financed him; and then became President.

So this was the Confederacy party! That did that. Folk from Texas know about that stuff!

But that's the point. And so therefore, the increase of the power of mankind, to live, and to create improvements in the condition of mankind, which is the foundation of the intention, of the founders of our Republic. It's also in other parts of the world, the same kind of intention has been expressed. And what you're getting from Russia and China today, is something similar: And that's why the alliance of the United States, with Russia and China, in particular, as the major leading powers, right now, is the practical question, on which the survival of the United States and civilization depends! That alliance, which crushes the British system, which is the old Roman Imperial system, cast in a British form today. And it's that imperialist system of Roman Imperialism, which is the enemy we have to destroy: And we have to say, "Good-bye baby, you're gone forever! We don't want you back ever. We're going ahead with mankind."
JASON ROSS: And then, the need to get rid of popular opinion, on that, as you had said earlier, that, if you're going to create a future that hasn't yet existed, that you have to conceptualize, if your idea of knowing something or forming your opinions is based on them being popular, not only are most popular opinions wrong, as opinions, but your ability to create valid thoughts is just gone, if that's the way that you act.
LAROUCHE: See, you've got to look at the psychology of this matter: We have been living, in European civilization in particular, we've been living under the Roman Imperial model. Now, the Roman model was simply a continuation of earlier imperial models which had existed. So, the problem here, is that, we have a population which is conditioned to obey, an imperial model. We are actually brainwashed into believing in an imperialist model: That there is a ruling caste, which is supposed to be all-wise, a religious folk-thing available, and we're supposed to believe in that. And that we are supposed to look up to the opportunities provided to us by our benefactors, to those people who own us — and sell us, and kill us, right? That's what's going on.
What has happened? The British monarchy, for example, right now, in this period, has foisted upon the world, a policy of reducing the human population to less than 1 billion people in a short time! The entire policy of the Green policy is reducing the world population to now, officially, less than 1 billion people! That's the situation!
So what are we living under? We're living under a government, and pacemakers, to believe that this system, the Green system now, which will reduce the human population, radically and quickly, from an order of magnitude of 7 billion to less than 1, in a short period of time. Now, did the people out there do that? Did they decide to kill their neighbors? To kill almost 16% of their neighbors? Hmm? or 14% of their neighbors?
No, they didn't. They were conditioned into believing "this is good for you"! "Mama says, this is good for you: Take it!" (It happens to be poison, but give it to 'em anyway.) Right? And, that's what happening.
We have the old oligarchical system, the thing which you get from the ancient Greek history, the old oligarchical system is ruling the planet today, in the form of a London-centered system of imperialism! It's a new form of Roman Imperialism. You had ancient Rome, you had Byzantium, you had the Crusader system, hmm? And then you had this new British system of imperialism.
The planet is dominated by imperial forces, which are the enemy of mankind! They have an ideology: It's the oligarchical principle. It's well known to anyone who studies Classical history. But the point is, we are now victims — we call ourselves a nation of free people? We a nations of victims, victims of the oligarchical principle! Victims of Wall Street, which is a branch of London! We're their victims. And people say, we have to respect Wall Street, we have to save Wall Street. You see, the people are their own worst enemy, when they believe in this kind of system!
And all I'm saying, and proposing, is simply that we go back to the human system: The human system which is well understood by the founders of the United States, and for which this Constitution was written. I'm saying go back to the American Constitution, it's our Constitution, it's our law. Let's obey our own law! Our own law is embodied in the design of the Federal Constitution, why not stick to it? Not this British thing, that we got away from, in creating the United States! Now, the British system is trying to run us! I say, "No! I'm an American, buddy. I know what it is to be an American, historically, not just in loose opinion."
SHIELDS: Like you said, this is culturally enforced, on levels that most people wouldn't even expect. The example you gave on the weather is exactly that: Is there anything more obvious, than to think that if you want to understand processes on this planet, you need to look beyond the planet? You need to look at the Sun, you need to look at the galaxy — shouldn't that be obvious?
LAROUCHE: Well, look at what we're getting on our weather reports: We're looking at the weather system, and our team is getting the best kind of information on all kinds of weather, what the Solar System is doing, what's happening to the galaxy we're a part of, subjects of. We now measure the major changes in weather conditions are actually subjects of forces, or influences, which are controlled by the galaxy, as a whole! And we understand more about this, by looking at the history of birth and death of living species, about a half-billion years. So, we have actually about a half-billion years' access, to the knowledge of the correlation between the galactic movements, and the rise and decline of different kinds of species.
SHIELDS: Right. And the pathology seems to be, why wouldn't you look at that? How do you train a population not to look at that, if that's there, if that's available, everything we're taking up is available to looked at?
LAROUCHE: We can emphasize, I think we can emphasize, especially, with the work from the Basement, that what we've done in this area on the question of weather, weather systems, goes beyond anything that's generally accepted. There are scientists out there, who do agree with us, and work with us on this subject. But the average person has no conception, about how the weather system is controlled? And man's relationship to it! The fact that we are now going through a change, a galactic change, in the orbit of the Solar System, and this is producing weather conditions this year, which are — look at the rainfall in this area! Just look at the pattern of rainfall in this area, as opposed to any recent year! We're going into a new condition of weather, which is based on a galactic factor, in the track of the Solar System's orbiting through the galaxy. We just turned a corner in the galaxy, and now we're getting a kind of weather of a type, which, we don't know whether mankind could survive weather, or not!
SHIELDS: I mean, you look at the periodicity in the history of the Earth, the history of the biosphere, it's taken whole species out. But that's part of this process, that we should be acting on, to understand. You're not acting on weather, if you're not acting on that whole causal process.
LAROUCHE: And that mankind has only been living — living — on this planet, for a few million years. At the first estimate of a sign of mankind. Andmankind never experience, in its entire existence, the weather conditions, which are galactically determined, which the galaxy is imposing now, on Earth's weather, now! And if we don't increase our power to control the bad effects of this increase in energy-density, which is hitting in this turning in the corner of the galaxy, the galactic movement, if we don't increase mankind's power to deal with these high energy-densities, which we're getting into now, and which we're getting with our own weather patterns, as right today! The weather, right here, today, is being affected by this galactic change, and if we're not prepared to develop the technologies by means of which we can control and deal with the bad effects of this, we're not going to make it! The human species is not going to make it!
And it's time for people to grow up, and begin to think galactically.
SHIELDS: Right. And that means, you can't do any statistical projection from the present. There's no way you can take — you say, we've been here just this little bit of period on the planet, you're not going to take that and project that forward; you've got to know what the process is that's causing it, and what you want to do.
LAROUCHE: Well, Sky, let's take the one thing and throw it at some people, who don't know this, huh? Energy-flux-density: The point is, that we can not maintain civilization without an increase in energy-flux-density and technology. The pulse is largely determined by the galactic factor, in terms of weather patterns. But we're in that situation. If we don't eliminate the environmentalist movement, the human species is wiped out! No one is a friend of nature who's an environmentalist!
SHIELDS: The environment will wipe them out, and us, for being environmentalist!
LAROUCHE: Exactly. Now, they want to get wiped out, they can go some place and get wiped out. We have places in the galaxy, just waiting for them, if they want that. [laughter] We can give them all the mailing addresses that they want to go to — we're not going there, ourselves.
ROSS: Yeah, it's a strange way to look at things, environmentalism. It's like what you said about monetarism versus credit, is that, there's an idea that there's somehow fixedness at all. Say, when we're looking at weather patterns, now, you always have to think, "Where is this going? Why is this happening, towards what end?" And it's the same thing with credit, it seems: That you're saying, that you're saying, we're going to run our economy based on where we want to go; it's a simple point. Whereas when you've got a monetary system, you're always stuck in the past, you really can't move into the future.
LAROUCHE: But the main thing is to understand, I think, to emphasize, this crazy idea of environmentalism: This is absolutely, clinically insane!
ROSS: Yeah!
LAROUCHE: Because you look at these records — take the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which is a damned, total lie! There's no truth to it whatsoever. It's a complete fraud! And we know that from the study of living species, the record of a half-billion years now, which is what we have a record of. What's happened is that the species that survive, survive because they function under a higher energy-flux-density capacity! That the universe is always moving in the direction — at least in our experience on Earth — is always moving in a direction of an increase of energy-flux-density!
SHIELDS: Right, in the system as a whole.
LAROUCHE: That's right.
SHIELDS: The whole system's going to go that way.
LAROUCHE: And the species that survive, are species that are able to survive, the rise in the energy-flux-density of the environment in which they live! That is, each of these species that were wiped out, were wiped out, because they couldn't cope with the conditions produced by an increase in the energy-flux-density. So that, the so-called Second Law of Thermodynamics is a total lie! It's directly opposite to the truth!
And anybody who's a scientist who talks about this sort of thing, the Second Law of Thermodynamics, are liars! They're utter incompetents or liars! They should have their degrees taken away from them, their professorships taken away from them! They're irresponsible, they're reckless: They're like drunken drivers — take the booze away from them!
SHIELDS: That's why there's no such thing as "sitting still." This is the point you made, Jason: The system is moving, when you think you're sitting still. Anybody who claims to be sitting still, is actually moving against that, you're moving against the process that's going to drive forward no matter what. And yeah, historically, in the fossil records, we've seen everything that behaved that way, was eliminated. Every single thing, every single — you know, we think with all of these animal species, did they change, to go extinct? No, in fact, they didn't change, right? They sat there.
And there are certain kinds — if you refuse to change, when the whole is changing, the process will eliminate you!, in order to move forward. Now, we've got the choice to willfully move forward. And it seems what you're discussing, that same fallacy is there, in environmentalism and monetarism.
LAROUCHE: And it's anti-human, because it's against the progress of humanity, according to the credit-system principle: That mankind has progressed as a species, in the 6 or so million years or human existence on this planet, that mankind has progressed by scientific or equivalent progress, are going to higher energy-flux-density in modes of existence: We, mankind, have wiped out whole species, many of these whole species!
SHIELDS: Mm-hmm! And created whole new ones.
LAROUCHE: Right, at the same time. The animal species that live, mostly are ones we've maintained, for our own use.
So therefore, this conception of society, that it must always go forward in energy-flux-density, of man's control of energy-flux-density, of its own means, that is the basis for the existence of humanity! And anyone who talks about a Second Law of Thermodynamics, is completely a liar! We know the cases from the 19th century, that brought this in: They were all liars. They were all frauds and liars! There is no such thing, and never was such a thing as a Second Law of Thermodynamics. It was a fraud from the beginning, it's a fraud when spoken by any scientist today, who says he believes in that, he is a fraud, and should be stripped of his epaulettes!
SHIELDS: Right. [laughs]
ROSS: Well, I think that when you got the belief in the Second Law, you're also misunderstanding what any of our scientific hypotheses are, that we've had, in the past hundred years, just such a shutdown in real, fundamental hypothesizing, that there's been a trend towards believing that hypotheses that would come up in the past, are actually existing, real physical laws, that are immutable, or somehow like the basis of the universe. As opposed to recognizing them as things that we're able to use, to transform how we act on it, and they're real in that sense. And if you stop that progress, then you start looking at them as if they were the real, fundamental building blocks of nature, and then you end up with death: Then you end up with the same kind of mathematical system that you would have with monetarism, for example.
SHIELDS: That's not having metaphor, is what it seems to be. There's no principle of metaphor, nobody understands metaphor as being an efficient principle, in the way the universe works.
ROSS: Yeah. And that, when you create these things, they're always new. But then, you look back afterwards, and say, "Oh yeah, now we know that." Or, now that's become a "thing," rather than — you take it outside of the human mind hypothesizing, and creating a hypothesis for why things are the way that they are, and you let that hypothesis become an object that's sitting out in the universe, and you've take it out of mind.
LAROUCHE: Well, you've taken it, also — look at it from the standpoint of human progress, as you cited it; look at it from that standpoint. That mankind progresses, and is able to survive by progressing. Now, therefore, the characteristic, or what we call the culture of society, has been changed qualitatively. It's just the equivalent of a physical revolution in the human system on Earth. The system is changed. The human being is superior, today, to the one that existed a couple of generations ago, because they've assimilated functional knowledge of principles, not just opinions, but principles, which enabled humanity to rise to a higher level.

For example, the increase of the population-density of the human species, look at the rise of that, and look at the factors that determined the rise of the supportable population size on the planet. Take that figure; what caused that? It was a change in the state of the mind, of human beings! Human beings do not have a biologically determined, fixed capability. Human beings have a mental capability, which is located, not in the simple sense of physical principles, but it reflects the increase of the progress, in terms of physical principles, and related kinds of principles which become permanent fixtures of the existence of humanity, as long as they function. Then you have recrudescence in technology, and the recrudescences in technology in the past, have meant mass death of populations! And impoverishment of their quality of existence
You take the case of Charlemagne, you take Central Europe, which is now the area of largely of France and Germany, and you take Charlemagne, who developed the most advanced system prior to the Renaissance. Now, when he died, that system was torn apart. But you look at what was accomplished under Charlemagne, and you see that the change in culture, which was a revolutionary change in culture, you had a burst of population, and sustainable population!
So that, what we do in terms of the mind, discovery of physical principles, and other relevant principles, that these principles as absorbed by humanity, increase and maintain, the ability of the human species to exist, and to advance in quality of existence. And that is the history of — the same thing of the energy-flux-density of the planet as a whole. The increase of the power of mankind to exist, the productive powers, and the results of that, are all a part of a change in culture of mankind, which is the effect, of being a physically efficient change in culture, in terms of effects.
The advances in physical science, which has occurred under modern civilization since Nicholas of Cusa, for example, those advances are unmatched, in earlier history, and they represent, in the main, a direction of increase, of the power of mankind to exist and to deal with the universe: So these have the characteristics of a physical principle of the universe. They're not opinions. They're physical principles. If you obey these principles, you succeed; if you violate those principles, you die. These principles are therefore, physically efficient. If they're physically efficient, then they're physical!
SHIELDS: And of the universe, not just something we do in the universe.
LAROUCHE: It's our action on the universe, which is the physical principle.
SHIELDS: 'Cause this is different than Hilbert's whole argument, is that, "Oh, well, the universe is fixed, logical. It's got a logical system, there. And oh yeah, we've got creativity, but creativity is just figuring out what's there already fixed." As opposed to saying: The universe has a principle of creativity of embedded in it, and then what we're doing, is we're resonating with that principle of creativity.
LAROUCHE: He was a product of the anti-Leibniz tendency. Exactly that.
SHIELDS: Mm-hmm! And it gets played as a counter-gang, it's used as a counter-gang. To say, "Oh yeah, we believe in creativity." But their view of creativity is you're digging through the dirt to find little gems in the dirt. Not that you're actually taking part in furthering the creative development of the universe as a whole.
LAROUCHE: Since the law of the universe being anti-entropy, therefore, if you're holding up anti-entropy, you're killing people. Because, what's happening is, the universe is moving upward, it's moving on. The planetary system is moving on, the galaxy is moving on; and if you're not keeping up with it, you're going down! Or maybe disappear altogether.
SHIELDS: It's like trying to drag your feet outside the train to slow it down.
LAROUCHE: Yeah. The point is, if you want to be a human being, you have to act like a human being, and not like an animal.
ROSS: And politically we have to let people participate in that: That, sometimes the idea is that the government, we're going to promote the general welfare, we have to improve people's physical living standards. But you have to improve culture. I mean, how many people, really, are able, if you look through history, how many people are really able, can you say that they've lived lives that really had an enduring meaning, enduring purpose. How can we increase that?
LAROUCHE: Well, look: I'm 89 years of age. I've lived through several generations, and what do I see? I see a degeneration in the quality of the successive generations! Now, you take this, in terms of science, and look back at the progress in science, we have general turnback of science, which was launched by people like Bertrand Russell. And the influence of Bertrand Russell on science, has been the major factor in the destruction of science, and culture, since that time! You have geniuses, who were from that time, like Einstein, for example, and Einstein was practically banned from any role in science! The leading scientific thinkers, of the post-World War II period, especially, the leading scientific thinkers were put to one side. They were allowed to exist, but they didn't have many students! They didn't have people who were — so the mass of people who were students, who were going into the universities, and coming out of them, and going into the professions, were far less competent, than these professors, who were not entertained any more in those universities.
So the change in policy, science policy was degeneration! And we know, particularly that the Basement group, the fun is, the things that we're digging up! We find things that were put to one side, and we find, with modern methods and experiments, we find that we can prove, things that were put to one side are being suppressed! While things that are utterly incompetent, are taught! And this is the great curse of life!
I was caught in the turning point, you know pre-World War II and post-World War II turning point, and I experienced directly, the sharp turndown, in education, in scientific opinion, and practice, since that time: We went into — the greatest minds that I know of in my lifetime, are dead! They died a long time ago. I'm one of the few survivors, of that generation, at this age!
And so, what's happened, we've gone down, we've become more and more degraded, in terms of our being attuned with the effects of scientific and related progress, and cultural progress. For example, take the case of Classical music: The death of Classical music, which was decreed at the beginning of the close of World War II, actually it started officially in Europe, or from the United States, in 1950. We've had a decline in music, in Classical poetry, literature and music, generally, which is actually systemic. A systemic degeneracy in Classical culture, or in the domain of Classical culture, so that people today, because of the music they like, or the reading they like, the entertainment they like, are degenerate, relative to my own generation. And they lack the capabilities.
Now, the culture of Classical culture is not simply a choice. It's not a choice that anyone can make freely, without some effect on their own destiny and society's destiny. We are poorer off today, we are ruined today, by the suppression of participation and active education in Classical education.
And that leads to a failure in scientific education as well. Because actually, it's the Classical imagination, power of imagination, the power of metaphor, which is the source of physical scientific creativity. And what we've done is we've gone backwards, in terms of the potential for scientific creativity — even competence, even mere competence. We have a few people, who manage to get by, and who contribute most of the important contributions to science today. But in general, in the trans-Atlantic region, the British Empire reigns, we have been brought down, to lower and lower levels of moral culture, and other aspects of culture. And if we don't decide now, while we're on the edge of a collapse, now, if we don't decide to reverse that trend, that has dominated us, especially since the death of — since the assassination of John F. Kennedy, which in the United States' experience, is the marking point for this — if we don't reverse that, in terms of Classical culture and other things, and practices, this species is not going to make it! SHIELDS: And we have to realize that that was an attack on the species, to do that. This is not some kind of "natural" decay process. People will argue, "Oh, things just get bad. Things just get worse." Which is not true: This is by design! This was a British Imperial policy, launched as an attack on the U.S., and was consciously done. You destroy the culture; you destroy people's ability emotionally to attach themselves to any physical future state, you destroy people's ability to emotionally believe human creativity is an actual force in the universe; you tell them that "creativity is just sort of random, creativity is liberalism." And if you can hammer that into a population, then you've got the basis to come in and launch an attack, and they can't resist monetarism, they can't resist empire: That was by design. This is a continuance of the American Revolution to say we're going to resist that. LAROUCHE: Exactly. That's what we are. And those poor people out there, they're poor not because they're intrinsically poor, but because they're threatened by this cultural trend, which is typified in the extreme by this disgusting specimen, called Obama! The man is simply a disgusting creature; he's demented, in fact, as his behavior shows!
And we sit here, under the reign of a demented President, Obama, who's nothing but a puppet of the British Empire, and who kisses the Queen's bottom every chance he gets — and this creature, this insane creature, is the President? Who's dictating a fascist regime over the people of the United States? And we don't just throw him out of office, on perfectly constitutional grounds, and do it immediately? And replace his policy with a sane and humane one?
And you have a people who have lost the guts, to recognize, that this animal, which is what he's reduced himself to, in terms of his behavior, is not good for them! And not good for their health, or not good for their progeny! And we are fools who put up with that fraud!
We have some re-education to do! SHIELDS: Yeah, right! HOEFLE: All right, anything else. SHIELDS: Let's get people to stand up on their hind legs. HOEFLE: That's a good idea. LAROUCHE: Demonstrating this'll do it! [laughter] HOEFLE: All right. Well, the only overpopulation we have, is among parasites. So, to the Queen, the royal family, Wall Street, the whole bunch, the Greenie cult, if you think the world is overpopulated, why don't you show us how it's done! And once you're out of the picture, the rest of us will be just fine. So, that'll close it up for this week. See you next week.