New Paradigm for Mankind, May 21st 2013, Transcript
May 22, 2014 • 9:40AM

You can watch the video presentation here.

NATALIE LOVEGREN: Good afternoon, it is Wednesday, May 21st, and you are watching a New Paradigm for Mankind. I'm Natalie Lovegren, and joining us here in the studio are Liona Fan-Chiang of our Scientific Research Team and Lyndon LaRouche.

Today, Liona will be leading us through a discussion about the achievement of controlled thermonuclear fusion. And I'd just like to say, that it is of the utmost urgency for the survival of us as a species that we achieve this, and I wanted to situate her discussion with a statement about the basis of law. It was a fundamental concept for the establishment of Western civilization. This is a quote from Nicholas of Cusa's 1433 Catholic Concordance, which preceded the Council of Florence. And I don't want to summarize this, because it's very important.

He says: "All legislation is based on natural law, and any law which contradicts it cannot be valid. Hence, since natural law is naturally based on reason, all law is rooted by nature in the reason of man."

So, if we're going to survive as a civilization, we're going to have to return to this concept, as a fundamental law of economics. We have several options in what we can do at this point, all of this actually lead to thermonuclear fusion. We can go on the trajectory that we're on right now, which will result in a world war, and end up with the extinction of the species, due to thermonuclear war, or we can choose the other patch, which is to develop fusion, bring that power to the hands of man, to the mind of man, and have a future for civilization. So, with that, I'd like to introduce Liona and let's get into the discussion.

LIONA FAN-CHIANG: Thanks Natalie. I want to tee-off from what was discussed off from the past several shows. The last time Ben [Deniston] presented this very amazing picture of the environment in which we live, and what we actually are, including, for example, that really most of the activities that we know, the dynamics of the system that we deal with, are largely controlled by the Sun. They're controlled by the Sun, and then, to some extent by the galaxies, the various galaxies, by cosmic rays. He went through that, the amount of heat that's stored up in the atmosphere, in precipitation, is equivalent to about 6,700 megatons of TNT — that's a lot. That's 23% of the Sun's energy is stored up, or is used to evaporate, to store it all up there. This is then what's determining the water cycles, the rivers that we depend on, the agricultural water, the rains, the winds, and life, basically, photosynthesis.

The Sun, in addition, fluctuates the cosmic rays; the cosmic rays that impinge upon the Earth are somewhat controlled by our Sun, and we know that there are correspondences between the cosmic rays and our weather, the temperature of the upper atmosphere, and therefore hurricanes and so on. Major, major structures and influences that are really guided by the Sun.

And so, if we're going to be thinking about our species, not just human species, but also all life on Earth, being about to take another step, being able to have more control over nature, then, we should know the Sun. That should be the basic at least; we should know what the Sun is, what it does, how it acts, and really be, at some point, able to make one of our own.

So, I think the boundaries of what I'd like to have this discussion today. Now, we know a lot more about the Sun, than we did about 100 years ago. Our knowledge about the Sun was very limited up until about the turn of the last century, and there were a few things, more recently — well, before the turn of the last century, what we knew was, that it was hot, and it had spots; we knew that it had sunspots. And otherwise, it was a pretty much a big furnace to us. It was what we knew fire to be at that point.

And at the turn of the century, there are a few things that happened. The ones we know more of, are our ability to measure magnetic fields, our ability to look at waves, look at actual motion on the Sun — these are more recent, these are from our ability to put up satellites in space, to look at solar activity, and our ability to put up satellites to look at different frequencies.

But really, the biggest shift to our ability to understand the Sun, to the extent that we know the Sun, is really from the investigation of nuclear fission and nuclear fusion. And they were developed over the past century, which was really not that long ago. Compared to the amount of time that human beings have been around, this past hundred years has not been that long; and as far as fusion goes — I mean fusion was not fully in gear, the research wasn't in gear until about the 1950s, although there were definitely hypotheses and attempts decades before that.

But despite the fact we have advanced so much, there's still a lot that we don't know. There's still a lot that we don't know, as Ben went through last time, only the last cycle, were there people saying "the next cycle is going to be weak." And when those people said it, most people didn't believe them. And so, at that point, people said that was conjecture and that was unscientific and whatever. Now, that that has been proven true, now, people are looking at that and saying, well, even the next cycle might be worst, it might be longer, it might be slower, and weaker.

And so, that's a part of the aspect of why we look at fusion, and sort of a result of looking at fusion. Now, since we've begun to seriously investigate fusion, we've actually found out that we know even less than we thought we did. And largely because, to investigate the Sun, which seems so phenomenal, so big, and you know, when you think about extremes, that's one of them. In order to investigate it, we've had to create extremes, extremes that have gone far, far our previous capabilities, specifically to investigate fusion. So, now, we've created lasers, that create light that's brighter than anything we know, equivalent to a gamma-ray burst, which is an astronomical phenomenon.

We created plasmas that now are actually hotter than our Sun — that are actually hotter than our Sun. so the Sun is about, depending on where you're looking, probably about 6,000, to a million, 2 million, some people say 15 million degrees. The plasmas that we create are from 10 to 100 million degrees, like I said, plasmas that are hotter than our Sun.

Now, more challenging aspect though, is not the fact that we have to create these extremes; that is very challenging, and has changed the limits which bound our society. That's good. But, the most challenging aspect is that, for example, these plasmas and these extreme conditions have posed major, I would say they've posed major wrenches in our theory, in the way we think things work.

And so, one of the funny things about plasmas is — you know, magnetic fields and kinetic energy, the things running into each other, and there's electromagnetism, those are old sciences. They're things we thought we knew, we could calculate and so on.... Yet, we can not calculate plasmas, it just can't be done; and we've not been to forecast what they do. To some extent, experimentally we can, but actually, we have not been able to. And I think that's a really good measure of where we are scientifically and culturally today.

One of the major challenges, is that plasmas act as a whole, and they act in a self-organized way. Now most people think "self-organization," mean life. It means life, it means human beings, it means things that grow. They don't really associate things like plasmas, or anything nonliving, with something that grows, evolves, or self-organizes.

So, let's run through this: This is a picture of our Sun, and you'll see some interesting structures in there: Mainly, they call them the "rope filaments." This is, obviously, a drawing, a simulation of the magnetic field of our Sun, and you get a sense of the influence that the Sun has, and it's literally across the Solar System, which makes sense.

This is laser fusion occurring at the National Ignition Facility, in California. These are lasers which are extremely strong. They produce stronger ones for this purpose, but not actually currently being used. But, the strongest lasers have been produced for fusion. And this is one of the several machines, that now we can find these incredibly hot plasmas. I want to show you a few of these.

So, like I said, plasmas pose this incredible challenge to current science, and really, to current philosophy for this reason: They do not act entropically, at all; they do not act entropically, they have a tendency to concentrate energy in particular places; and a tendency to not just self-organize, but to self-confine. And a good example is, there's a configuration, they call it the "H mode," because it's "highly confined." And this is something that was experimentally found in the '80s, and for a whole decade had not been understood. And really, up to now, it's still being investigated, it's still under controversy as far as what is actually going on.

But what they found was, that at a certain point, you know, there's turbulence, there's lots of noise, and as it progressed it got more turbulent, until a point where.... it suddenly got silent, and the turbulence went away; or it became a sort of stable turbulent state. And confinement time doubled, and it was creating its own conditions for confinement.

And that's only one of several different conditions! This particular picture is of a case, you'll see these — you might not be able to see them here, but there's these sort of rays, these sort of concentrations of plasma in swirls along the edges.

These are a few other examples of self-organized plasmas in different reactors: This is Spheromak, Field Reverse Configuration (FRC), and this is a pinch, a Reverse Field Pinch, (RFP). So these are different types of reactors which have their own, are actually based on these self-organized plasmas.

This is a paper, which actually says, "Such a 'viable' self-organized complexity acts as a 'vital' part of the plasma oscillator...." Actually, before it says that, "Recent experiments performed on physical plasma reveal the possibility to establish a direct relationship between non-linearity and the creation of space charge configurations, with behavior usually attributed to living beings."

And generally, as plasmas get more complicated, it actually shows, part of the complication is that it shows this increased coherence, that is, in any progression, instead of dispersing into a hot, sort of equilibrium, there's an increasing coherence: I sort of get the picture of a tornado building up. You have these little swirls, that, instead of swirling off and dispersing, build up to one spiral, one strong, coherent structure.

Now, and the way that physicists have tried to deal with this, have proven this problem itself more difficult than they thought. So, one way is to deal with it kinetically: You try to take all the particulars you have, and see how they collide with each other, and how they interact with each other. And generally, that can work to some extent, with the ionosphere, for example, which is a plasma; it does not work with these conditions, and therefore, it does not work on the Sun, and does not work for probably most of the universe, because we hypothesize being 95% plasma. Now, one thing is, if it doesn't work for 95% of the universe, it's probably not very universal.

Now, they tried also fluid dynamics, because fluids generally act more as a unity and so on. This has also not worked; it has created equations that are unsolvable, and one of the funny things is that fusion is actually the first case where supercomputers were declassified. So, in this way, because it has posed these challenges, I think that itself makes it worthy to be investigated in full, to be a major direction of study.

Now, I want to throw a little wrench in here, which is, Mr. LaRouche, you recently put out another paper, which brought back up Vernadsky, the role of Vladimir Vernadsky, and his idea, his elaboration — I don't know exactly if it's his unique idea — but his elaboration of the fact that the human mind, and the creative potential that human mind expresses, is part of the natural evolution of the universe, and that therefore, it is a higher expression — it's more universal, it's a higher expression, of the universe, and that other things, the nonliving and so on, must be measured by that. That the measure of what is going on in so-called "physics" has to be held up to the measure of human creativity.

And there's a few things that — one, we've seen already, with these plasmas for example, that in extremes, the nonliving approximates the living; it seems to, but not all the way. So for example plasma's superconductivity which happens at room temperature, in life, but has to happen at extreme conditions as almost zero degrees Kelvin in nonliving things. Life, also, in the same situation, similarly, approximates, but never actually reaches cognition in a large scale, for example through its biospheric evolution. And so, as an evolutionary state, as a whole, unwillingly, they evolve in a way that human beings do, willingly, and human beings of course do it at a much, much faster rate.

But, what this poses is a few things. One, human beings evolve in a way that is hard to understand for people who study evolution, because human beings evolve non-physically, in a sense: Not by form, we don't grow more arms, or anything like that, and yet, the power that human beings have over nature and our ability to have an ability to wield, increases, in the way that life does over their evolution. So, as life increases its capability, or as life evolves — it has an ability to go onto land, has an ability to go into the atmosphere, and so on, humans have done that type of evolution without any form changing.

The other thing is that, most people think of human cognition as random. Most people think of creativity as self-contained, and not a universal aspect, not something that's a character of the universe. Now, if you take that, if you take human thinking as continually approximating the way that the universe operates; or, how do you say this? As universal, if you take human creativity as a universal characteristic, then what does mean? What does that mean for everything that we've looked at, in so-called physics and so-called chemistry? And what does that mean for human beings, as a responsibility for human beings, as a study, also? In other words, what type of responsibility do we have to understand that creative process, if that's the characteristic of the universe?

And, I want to take that turn as sort of redefining what we mean by our environment, redefining what I started out with, as far as this solar environment, and re-look at, for example, these structures. To what extent are what we've been seeing, the Sun, these plasmas, this anomalous activity in the weather, and so on, actually just sort of special cases or approximations, a manifestation of a process of evolution and of creation? And to what extent are we creating, a little bit of a window into this process?

And then, really, if we plan to become more of a universal species, and if we plan to become less enslaved to circumstance, if we plan to control the water, if we plan to explore space, and so on, to what extent do we have to take these larger questions of, for example, the ability to create controlled fusion, from this standpoint, from the standpoint of saying, OK, investigating fusion, investigating antimatter, and sort of these extremes, can open a window, to one breaking the current paradigm of really mathematics, mathematical science? But then also create an ability for us to understand in a more precise way, how the creativity of the universe works? In parallel of course, with now saying, OK, if we're going to be investigating creativity, then, we also better investigate how the human mind works in parallel to this. And with one more thing, which is that, the Sun won't be around forever, and so, we may be taking leave of our Sun, and we may one to take one with us; I think that would be — that might be what we have to do. We should be able to be ready to do that.

So, let me end with that, and I have a few other things which we can bring up in discussion, maybe.

LYNDON LAROUCHE: Okay. Well, in this coming week, will be — today, I'll be recording it, but I'm giving a presentation to an academy in Russia. And the central thesis of this statement I shall deliver, is based on the implications of the discovery of Vladimir Vernadsky, who actually, from my studies, I think Vernadsky has been underestimated, because he makes the point, which is his point but which is not generally picked up by students of Vernadsky, and that is, that his conception was, that we can not behavior in the Solar System by time, we have to measure it by a class of human time. That the human species is actually the determinant, once it comes into power, becomes the determinant directly, of the direction of the development of even the Solar System. His point is, he makes it, that time as such, is not the metric. But life is also, even before mankind, even before the human species, also has its own metrical characteristics.

So if we divide the periods between two developments, one, the pre-human condition of life, and then, you get to h, and then you get to the human condition of life, as it developed, in culture. And these are different things.

Now, the problem is, there's a conflict in this concept of life. One is the oligarchical principle, which says that the people who rule the society treat the rest of them as slaves. That's the Roman Empire, that's the British Empire, for example, but this is an older phenomenon: It's called the Zeus, or Satan phenomenon, they're the same thing.

Then, when mankind becomes more effectively a creative species, voluntarily creative species, man, by willful action, this is the so-called Promethean view; but the Promethean principle changes the direction, of mankind's influence on the Solar System, in fact, as a whole. So therefore, you have to divide this thing into periods. You have the Earth and the Solar System has a pre-human aspect; it has a living process, a biologically living processing, which is very important in one phase, in the raw development of the Solar System; then you go into the living processes dominate, increasingly, relatively speaking, the Solar System, which is generally limited, more immediately, to Earth, but it's not limited to Earth even then. When the human species comes into play, especially as a more dominant species everything changes. The will of mankind, the creative powers of mankind take over, and begin to change the character of the environment.

Now, Vernadsky's conclusion is that, in this process, you reach a point, in which mankind is the universe, in mankind's reach and power. Then this becomes obvious between, from the period of the influence of well, Max Planck, for example, and Einstein, preceded by my dear friend, Bernhard Riemann, and these people actually brought in, at the turn of the end of the 19th century to the beginning of the 20th century, was a transformation of interest. First of all, science had been a science-driver program, led actually by the United States, led by the development of the United States, which became the great driver, of development. The fact of, even before, the Renaissance actually changed the direction of European history, while at the same time, Europe was resisting what was coming from what was being formed as the United States, even from the 17th century, that early. For example, the discovery of the principle of the existence of the Solar System, by Kepler, was actually a defining point, coming on the basis of what had happened earlier with Brunelleschi and Cusa, that this thing changed the direction of civilization. So the United States, even without being the controller, top down of the world, the United States became the process of change, the influence of change, of the planet.

And therefore, everything, it was the old Zeus/Satan principle, which was the oligarchical principle, which is the Zeus/Satan principle, because Zeus was the Greek name for Satan. And so the Zeus/Satan complex is the enemy, to the present day, in terms of our current President, for example, is the enemy of the United States, but of civilization in general.

For example, since the ouster of Bismarck from power in Germany, because Bismarck had controlled the situation with Russia, other parts of Central Europe, had controlled the situation to prevent war. So the British wanted to start war, the British Empire, so what they did, is they got Bismarck pulled out of office by the British monarchy — then the war started. It started immediately after the assassination of President Carnot of France. And since that time, European civilization has been on a downward plunge, in terms of its trends, especially to the degree that the British Empire, in particular, has dominated increasingly, the planet.

So there's been a decline, since, actually, in that period, since the beginning of the 20th century, or slightly before that, there's been a decline in the moral character; at the same time, you have the development in terms of science, in terms of Max Planck and Einstein, who actually were reflections of the interests of a previous great man, Bernhard Riemann. So the Riemannian freedom in science, inspired the developments, such as those of Planck and of Einstein.

So you had a trend, which was characterized, since the beginning of 1900, in which, in France, the idea of arithmetic was used as a substitute, to eliminate the principle of chemistry. And the principle of chemistry is the principle of life. So therefore, now, with the poor jerk in France, but also our enemy, the Satan of the 20th century, Bertrand Russell, immediately went to eliminate the practice of physical science, and to replace it, or subordinate it, to the idea of mathematics per se. That was the process.

So therefore, since that time, and through a period of world wars which coincided with this, that actually began, really, after the ouster of Bismarck, the process with the assassination of President Carnot, the whole area of all trans-Atlantic communities have been in a process of general degeneration, moral and intellectual degeneration. And each generation in the 20th century, and now, every generation is morally and functionally decaying: That is, every generation, since the beginning of the 20th century, has been in a process of decay, despite the case of Presidents such as Franklin Roosevelt and some other people, the general tendency has been. That's why you see today, where you have a resurgence of Eurasia in the non-Islamic parts, a resurgence of progress; what you see lately in the new prime minister in India. So, China, Russia, India, are now keystones, of progress in Eurasia; whereas the trans-Atlantic region is in a period of decline.

Now, you go back to back to Vernadsky on this thing, which, the point is, that the human species, as we see in the history of chemistry in particular, for example, we had the idea of a periodic table of chemistry, which was superseded almost the moment it was completed! Because, then, in the 20th century, there was a confusion, where chemistry was still practiced, but chemistry was already being attacked for destruction, at that on, with the influence of Bertrand Russell, in particular. And since the 1920s, the rage for destruction of culture!

So, in the meantime, the fact is, the Solar System, as through the expression of what man can do in the Solar System, that mankind's destiny is to take over the Solar System, as an influence in the Solar System. Now, you get with Vernadsky, his conclusion is actually, even though, often people try to avoid this thing in his argument, his argument is that human life, is the determinant, of the shape of the history of man from that point, that mankind will take over the Solar System, in this direction; and with the weak Sun, under the grip of the galaxy, will have to move in more and more and reshape the history of the Solar System. The very fact that you're referring to the higher energy-flux density programs, where chemistry is now totally superseded, by very high-energy-flux-density programs, the Sun is now an inferior power, relative to these developments by human beings, of very high energy-flux densities, and the shaping and control of them.

So we're in a period where we have to look at the future of mankind in a different way: Get rid of all the green policies, everything that represents that, because this is really the death of mankind. This is also the British Empire's policy. Therefore the British Empire and its allies, are the greatest threat to the human species. Because their tendency as the green policy, is to destroy the ability of the human species to continue to live.

FAN-CHIANG: Yeah, the green policy really is: The arguments that are made against science, are really based on the fact that you can't know. And I realized after a while that everything that they call "natural" are really just the things that are off-limits to human beings. And that, for example, these things that are called "natural disasters" — what are natural disasters?

LAROUCHE: Naturally insane Presidents! [laughter]

FAN-CHIANG: Yeah, right! Exactly! Think about it, when are things disastrous, and when are they not? And when are they not natural? So the implication of a natural disaster is, one, human beings can't know them, and they should not control them. That's basically what it is.

LAROUCHE: You can describe this simply as the conflict between Zeus and Prometheus. The Promethean principle, is that natural to mankind as a species. The Zeusian principle is the principle of evil — which includes the British Queen, right now, for example. The policies of the British monarchy, are policies of pure, Satanic evil against the human species! You know, reduce the population, make them more stupid, limit the size of the population, kill them off, to make room for "nature"! Which is denatured, nature! When in fact, Vernadsky's emphasis is, there is no such division. That mankind is the triumphant agency, actually for the Solar System, but certainly implicitly, for mankind now. And what's being done in terms of the advancement of great technological projects, going to very high energy-flux density, way beyond the capacity of the Sun! This is the secret of man's ability to control the future of the Solar System, if we use our heads properly!

LOVEGREN: And that's why the shift to have a mathematical model dominate physics was a Zeusian policy. The same thing comes up in what you were bringing up with plasma physics. You can't make a breakthrough in fusion or in plasma physics, with a mathematical view. That's exactly why they're getting stuck right now. They're assigning equations to individual particles, and so the problem is you get an infinite number of equations, and even a supercomputer is not going to be able to handle an infinite number of equations. You need to go to a higher system, a higher metric to be able to understand this and to make a breakthrough.

LAROUCHE: Well, that's the idea of universal physical principles, which is chemistry. I mean, the history of mankind is, we start from fire, mankind is the only species that has a willing use of fire. So mankind is the fire-bringer, that's the Promethean conception against the Satanic conception. So therefore, this is what the issue is. The question of the survival of the human species, depends on suppressing what the Queen of England represents as an empress: And that is, the threat of destruction of the human species, is that Queen. She is my personal enemy, and she knows I'm her personal enemy.

LOVEGREN: And that's a bigger threat, than any "natural" disaster.

LAROUCHE: Exactly! No, this is exactly the issue. The question is, mankind is, as we have just been discussing here, where this discussion so far, mankind is a power. You don't have time as a power any more for Vernadsky: That actually, the human principle, of creativity, is the driver of the existence of mankind. And the problem was, that even Russians had trouble with this, because they would believe in what had to be time-plus, time-plus-life. The point is, that life is the highest expression of time! Of the driver of time! And therefore, the whole process which we're discussing, actually discussing at the table here, what we're discussing is actually this: That if you understand that Vernadsky was right, that the principle of life determines the factor of time, or what we call time. Life is driving and defining what time means, because the human species is the time-driver! And the time-driver determines the evolution of the plant, and that's time!

And Vernadsky insisted, that that is the issue! That life, human life, but life in general, is the driver, that the willful, noëtic powers of the human mind, which no animal species otherwise has, is the driver of the future of the existence of life on Earth. Life on Earth depends entirely upon this conception, of human life. Where Vernadsky says, you know, life — human life — is the metric, the development process of human life is the metric of history, which determines the existence or failure, of the human species.

LOVEGREN: We've recently surpassed, on a scale of time, we've recently surpassed what life is able to do, in terms of our ability to control, for example, you brought up this case of these high-powered lasers that can make a light brighter than anything known in the universe. They are so fast, that they can image chemical reactions; they can act on biological changes, on cell changes that were otherwise too fast, for us to be able to see, or to be able to have some direct relationship with. So we're now acting on a time-scale that is faster than biology, which is just an example of what you're saying about changing time.

LAROUCHE: That life, human life, is the determinant of the meaning of time. Not just life, but human life, because human life is the determining force. And you see that; because, chemistry really means "power." See, chemistry, the evolution in the practice of chemistry by living processes, is the measure of the progress of the planet. So therefore, you want the human factor, of decision making, the human quality as such, to be the determinant of the meaning of time, as well as of existence in general. That the process of man's evolutionary development, in the Solar System, is the proper measure of what the time is, for the human species, life, and for the Solar System.

Mankind's natural tendency now, has reached the point, that we can not function, without going beyond the surface of Earth, or take some increasing degree of control, over the nearby parts of the Solar System. We will not live in those parts, but we will control those parts. We will control the climate of the Solar System. And that's the future of mankind.

The fact that we, as human beings, are able to create, powers of force on this planet, which reach beyond this planet, and shape the dynamics with in the Solar System increasingly, that is man: That is Vernadsky's conception of the role of man. That you eliminate time as a determining factor. Time is a determining factor for animals, but once the human species comes into play, time is no longer the determining factor. The determining factor is the human willful intervention in the process of life on Earth. This intervention repeats the creation of forces of development, of power, which reach beyond Earth, reach into nearby areas, by the way we're able to reach, with radiation and other devices and impacts of this. We are able, as human beings, to gradually take over from the Sun, manage the Sun, determine what the Sun's intensity will be, because we are now dealing with powers of action, which reach far beyond anything the Sun does!

I mean, these very high-intensity energy-flux densities exceed that of the Sun. That's what the significance of human beings' ability, to develop very advanced kinds of energy-flux density.

FAN-CHIANG: Now, I don't know if this what you're saying, so, one of the things is, that human beings progress, and create higher energy-flux densities, and, like you say, chemistry is determined by that. And that in itself, is then determining the character and power, basically, of the Solar System...

LAROUCHE: Of man!

FAN-CHIANG: Of man, definitely, but of our ability to change things.

LAROUCHE: Yeah, exactly.

FAN-CHIANG: And, in that sense, I can see that time is changing. I don't know if that's exactly what you mean.

LAROUCHE: That's part of it.

FAN-CHIANG: Okay, that's part of. And then, the other thing, the only other hypothesis I had is that, when human beings come in, things don't just happen. We determine it.

LAROUCHE: And this is called the Promethean principle. And you have this famous play, drama, from the Classical Greek, on the Promethean principle, as against eh Zeus or Satan principle. Satan is Anglo name, shall we say, or something, for the Greek name for Zeus. So, Zeus is actually Satan. The same thing, they're interchangeable. And so, this is what the fight has been, the fight against Zeus, which is the British Empire, the Roman Empire, and things like that, against the struggle of mankind.

Because, remember, the key thing in all physical science, is the discovery of principles. And the principles are what we call the principles of chemistry, the increase of the energy-flux density, the biological evolution of the power of development of living species, to reach a higher level of energy-flux density, not only within themselves as entities, but acting upon the system around them. So mankind is actually a new development, in a sense, in the history of the universe, as far as we know. And this means that mankind has the implicit ability, to reach achievements which the Earth as such, could not reach by itself.

And this is suppressed, in terms of universal principles of chemistry, because these principles of chemistry, the ability to go way beyond anything anybody imagined in the 19th century, which has gone on now, go to the very high energy-flux density, mankind's command of the creation, of the synthesis of higher energy-flux density, is something which goes beyond anything the Sun has ever thought of!

FAN-CHIANG: The other aspect is that it evolves, and so, to some extent, I think, it's sort of the quantum physicist's nightmare: Which is that, it seems like then the physics that we're investigating, itself is evolving as we investigate it.

LAROUCHE: Yeah, yeah. That's Vernadsky's principle. That mankind's noëtic capability, is a self-evolving process, in which the expression of the will of the human mind, is the driving force. We reflect that in terms of universal physical principles, that universal physical principles, which are otherwise mysterious to us, except as we measure them in terms of energy-flux density. But the fact that these principles act on each other, to create higher orders of successive principles, and that the human mind's use of so-called fire, the fire-bringer principle of humanity, the fire-bringers succeed and progress. Those who are the green people, do not progress, they die. They're doomed. They are self-determined for extinction.

And this goes to the essence of what Vernadsky's argument is: That time is not a determinant, of life. Humanity is a determinant of life, human, as such.

FAN-CHIANG: Hmm! Right.

LAROUCHE: And then, you had all these quarrels, that go on about that stuff, because of people come in with various kinds of religious belief, which try to make some kind of mechanical explanation. But when you're dealing with physical chemistry, as such, you're dealing with physical chemistry: And physical chemistry is the reflection , of man's progress, it's a physical reflection, so therefore, when mankind is going to very high energy-flux density powers, mankind is reflecting the natural ability of mankind to use the principles of something which is higher than the normal conception of chemistry.

So mankind is creating higher chemistry than existed in the universe before, or at least as far as we know.

LOVEGREN: And in so doing, you're changing the metric. You're setting the human mind as the metric, but then that metric is changing as the human mind develops.

LAROUCHE: You're changing the self-conception of man himself. The crude conception of man is the fact that you're born and die. That's the crude version. That's a dismal prospect. The great prospect, is when your death is not the end of the meaning of your life: The meaning of your life is what you're able to contribute to mankind, in the process of dying, and going on to successive generations. So therefore, there's this duality, of rejoicing that someone had lived, if they deserve that, as opposed to the fact, don't shut it off. When we died, something better has to come out of it.

The idea of raising children, to be more talented, more skillful than their parents is the natural inclination of a sane human society. That we want our children to be better than we were, and then, the fact that they're going on, when they die, they're going on to give us, the opportunity to rise to higher level than we could have ever achieved ourselves.

And therefore, you have this duality of things, that yes, death is inevitable for all human beings, but there's also a cause for rejoicing in the fact that there are coming new human beings, who are going to have a better chance than we did, to deal with these problems.

FAN-CHIANG: New human beings in a new universe.

LAROUCHE: Yeah, yeah!

And so, the Zeusian idea is really Satanic. Is you take most of the people, you keep them as stupid as possible, and control their numbers of existence, and have a few parasites, acting like parasites sitting on top of them, like the Queen of England. And that's evil! The Queen of England is actually an embodiment of evil. Of actually what we call Zeusian evil, but it's actually called Satanic evil. The Roman Empire was part of the same thing.

And that's really what the problem is. Those are the issues — and the principles of chemistry, the principles as such, actually are a reflection, and now the table of chemistry no longer means anything in the same way, because now we're creating new states of higher orders of chemistry. Which is the physical evolution of mankind to a higher level of existence! And our purpose is to improve the chemistry.

One way of saying it: Can mankind's will create a better chemistry, where you can still identify the stepping stones of progress in chemistry? And the history of mankind is the stepping stones of progress in chemistry, from the first time that mankind cooked his own food. Once you can cook your own food, you're on the way up. You have to be able to digest, also.

LOVEGREN: And once you can create the power of the Sun, you're in even better shape.

LAROUCHE: You have to get rid of the stink of pessimism in human existence. You have to say, that we live, we live for a purpose; what is the purpose? The purpose is to maintain our neck of the universe, and make it better! That's the moral motive of the existence of mankind, to make the world better, through the process of the succession of lifes and deaths of people. That they always say, "I'm going to die, okay, but life is going to be better, because what's coming after me will be better." That's the motive, the moral motive of mankind. Without that motive, moral man has difficulty in being moral.

FAN-CHIANG: Yeah, and without those type of fetters, those pessimistic fetters, people would be amazed at what human beings can do! Almost anything that you can cite that is a so-called problem for mankind, is not really: There's no real problems, that we can't solve.

LAROUCHE: That's it!

LOVEGREN: Well, sounds like a great place to end. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time.