LPAC Policy Committee June 2nd, 2014, Transcript
June 3, 2014 • 9:56AM

Watch the video presentation here, and listen to the audio here.

MATTHEW OGDEN: Good afternoon, it's June 2nd, 2014. My name is Matthew Ogden, and you're watching our weekly discussion on larouchepac.com with the LaRouche PAC Policy Committee. We're broadcasting over Google Hangouts live, today, and connected via video, we have Bill Roberts joining us from Michigan; Dave Christie, joining us from Seattle, Washington; Kesha Rogers, who is joining us today from San Francisco, California, where she's been joining Michael Steger, who's running as a candidate, tomorrow, in the primary elections for U.S. Congress; and Rachel Brown, joining us from Boston, Massachusetts. Michael Steger can't join us today, because he has events connected to tomorrow's votes.

So here, in the studio, I'm joined by Diane Sare, and also by Mr. LaRouche. So, Lyn, I'll let you begin.

LYNDON LAROUCHE: Well, we're having a very interesting time, internationally, because we're having a change, as I've said on a number of recent occasions: We have a triad which has emerged in Europe, as such; we have a triad in Eurasia, which is now functioning, or will be functioning, India's coming on. So the triad in, for example in Europe is located essentially in France, Germany, and Italy. In Eurasia, it's Russia, China in a big way, and also, now India coming in. So, we have a situation as such that we do have options, particularly what's happened in France in attacking the British system of the British, in trying to break up the euro system which is a very useful thing to bring off.

We also have a very dangerous situation, as long as Obama remains President, the danger would be that Obama's control of the seat of President of the United States is the one thing that could cause, a thermonuclear war globally, which might cause the extinction of the human species. So the crucial thing is, the British are problem; Obama's a stooge for the British. If Obama were to remain President, you could have, in a very short time, not maybe immediately, but in a short time, you could have a thermonuclear war, and that's the question we've got to deal with, now.

OGDEN: I thought you made the comment last night in the discussion, that history is on our side, the empire is crumbling, and you have the emergence of what you just referenced with these two triads, in Europe and in Eurasia; and you also have what is happening here in the United States, including what happened with Kesha Rogers' campaign in Texas last week, but that it's a very dangerous time, because at the point that a new Roman Empire, in the form of the British Empire is crumbling, they would threatened the extermination of the human race, just like Zeus did in the event of the collapse of their power. And so, you made the comment on Friday, if you want to prevent thermonuclear war, impeach Obama, now. That's the only strategic option for the United States.

LAROUCHE: Absolutely. That's absolutely the case. And I'm sure, what we're doing — Kesha's success is underrated, because if you have a bunch of failures, which is the Democrats who voted against her, they are really caught: How can they be in a position, where they are still children of Satan, shall we say, underneath Obama?

So, our situation is, you take in France, as in the case of Marine Le Pen, and you see in the case there, they actually toppled the power of the British interest, by getting the Socialist Party of France (PS) in jeopardy. Because the Socialist Party in France is one of the stooges, has been one of the stooges, as long as they've been in power, for the British Empire.

OGDEN: This goes all the way to François Mitterrand and Margaret Thatcher, and George Bush.

LAROUCHE: Yeah, exactly. And that's what I've been fighting, against that thing and similar kinds of things all along. And the situation is such, that all you have to do, is remove Obama from the Presidency, by impeachment, of which he's — the fuzz is already on the impeachment . Get him out of office. You can then save the Democratic Party from the shame it's brought upon itself: We can get our country back again. And the first thing that will define this, is the enactment of Glass-Steagall, as the first, but not the sufficient measure, by the United States itself, to solve our problem, or to bring it under control. So that's the option.

The option is that if Obama's thrown out of office, since Obama is hated, by about three-quarters of the voters, his removal from office, would mean the Democratic Party would become functional again, and even with all its faults. And in that case, I think the world can win. It'll be a shabby victory, because the conditions in the trans-Atlantic region are really very shabby. But despite the shabbiness of the victory, getting the victory is the first step to making the improvements. Get him out: You're going to have no improvements until you get Obama out. Matter of fact, if Obama stays in, you probably will all be dead because of thermonuclear war.

That's the way it is! And the people have to — but I know people are gutless. The average person has so far, lost their identity as citizens, they are simply following an imperial objective, just like the British Empire used to do; the British citizen used to be like that. And our own citizens, who have aspirations, personally in one direction, will go the other way, not to offend the imperial power, and Obama is an extension of the imperial power.

DIANE SARE: I think what you've identified the shift in 1900, in science and in Classical music, with Hilbert and Bertrand Russell, is really crucial, because if you think from the standpoint of mathematics, or Euclidean geometry, then you're stuck in a box, because you're stuck in a trend-line where you say, the only possible options for the future are based on what my perception is of the immediate past. And under those conditions, if you take what happened, not so long ago, I mean, this year is the 25th anniversary of the Fall of the Berlin Wall, and what happened in that moment, to many people, if they reflected on it, was completely unthinkable, even weeks earlier. Like that you had had Erich Honecker making these grandiose speeches about a thousand years of his Socialist Reich, and three weeks after the speech, he was getting on an airplane, fleeing the country for his life, after the Wall came down!

But because of people's linearized, inhuman method of thinking, they have rendered themselves incapable of imaging, exactly what you're putting on the table now. And what's actually already happening!

LAROUCHE: You could also be more specific about what terms of that. In the year 1900, the official killing of science occurred, it started then. And that was the killing of science. Since that time, science has been downgraded It is no longer a leading force, under the Bertrand Russell influence in particular. So therefore, we now go on practical things, and practical people are stupid people. They're not capable of defending themselves; the practical people are the typical slurfs history, hmm?

And so therefore, we went through this thing in a discussion we had on Wednesday, and I think, with the contribution that was made by one of our members in explaining exactly how music works, got at the gut of it, and therefore, you know that the discussion of Classical music, and the suppression of Classical music, which began approximately with the death of Johannes Brahms, the death of Classical music, has been the death of the mind of the human species throughout much of the planet, especially in the Eurasian part of the planet.

OGDEN: And the death of Johannes Brahms intersects directly with the 1900 change, but also the ouster of Bismarck, and you've made the point that that was really put us on the road towards this century of perpetual world war.

One thing that's very interesting, is that Brahms himself was a major supporter of Bismarck. He was an admirer of Bismarck, and carried his speeches around with him, when he traveled, read his speeches. And after Bismarck was ousted from power, Brahms joined a society for the restoration of Bismarck to his seat of power. It was a society based in Berlin, they had a name for themselves, "The Unchained Horses' Society" or something like that, and because Brahms understood the importance of Bismarck as the conduit of the American ideal into Europe.

LAROUCHE: Take what we put on a plate, on Wednesday, here. Now, look at the treatment we gave to define that thing. Now, we went through, what? We went through the triad of the Renaissance, and the Renaissance by Kepler, defines the principle of music, and the principle of science. What happened is, that the death of science meant that popular music came, and popular music is a disease that destroys the capabilities of the mind, the human mind.

So, you see it, the junk music, junk entertainment, and so forth; entertainment, recreation in this form, becomes the destruction of the morality, and future existence of the human species. This is a Zeusian, Satanic cult. And the effect on the world, especially the trans-Atlantic region, since that time, since the death of Brahms, and since the end of science, and the integration of science and Classical artistic composition are one and the same thing. If you are not a Classical musician, you're not a scientist.

And so there's the point. So therefore, now, look at popular entertain in the United States, during the course of the 20th century, now into the 21st century, that's the problem: You have destroyed the human quality, of the human beings of the United States. And that's the way you're seeing the behavior, that's what you're protesting, that's why we are the minority, because only a minority is still human. And we have the responsibility of getting the rest of the human beings back into play, in terms of what human beings are supposed to be! When you reduce people to animals, and the idea of going into this so-called practical reductionist system of thinking, that is slavery! That creates slavery.

That's why three-quarters of the population today, of the United States, the citizens, hate Obama! Why don't they dump him? Because they are intimidated, and they're castrated intellectually, by the fact that they're in a culture which stinks, which makes them susceptible, because they have no principle to defend; they have no sense of principle. They have the idea of comfort, they have the idea of joy, they wish they could have it. But they don't know how to get it, because they don't have within themselves the commitment to create that which they must get!

And that's the lesson right now. That's why we have a potential. If we get this conception across, it is possible to save humanity. And what's going on in Eurasia, in Asia in particular, is very much in that direction.

KESHA ROGERS: Absolutely. And I think that, if you look at the intention throughout the course of our United States, the history of the United States, in all of the great leaders, whose intention was embodied in this idea bringing about a change, and a cultural transformation in society, you think about Lincoln and his connection to Classical culture, with the developments around the Shakespearean dramas; or you think about President Franklin Roosevelt bringing in the Spirituals in Classical culture; or John F. Kennedy, when he brought in Pablo Casals. I think that, if you look at what these individuals understood is that, the only way that you are going to get the population to be freed from that bestial state of mind, to think that they don't have a unique human identity to change things, and the way that society thinks right now, is that human beings don't really have a role in making profound changes, and actually shaping the direction of their future, a lot of people, because of the bestiality of the culture have been conditioned to believe that what happens to you and society is just a matter of circumstance, it's just going to happen. It's sort of like "the markets will decide," whether or not I'm going to be able to have a future, which is worthy of my truly human quality.

And that's what we really expressed as the underlying challenge to the population in the fight that we waged through the Texas campaign. Because what people had to come to decide, and you had three out of ten people not only voting to impeach Obama, voting for impeachment, voting for a future, voting for a real solution to the economic collapse, but what these people came to understand, in the course of being in dialogue with our campaign, coming to represent the identity, that wait a minute, I don't have to wait for somebody else to take action; our obligation as human beings is that we have a responsibility to determine what the course and direction of the future is going to be, to change the course of history.

And that's what people to come to understand right now: That we're at a period, where this whole system this bankrupt financial system, Wall Street system is coming down. President Obama doesn't have a chance whatsoever. He's nothing more than a tool of the British Empire, and this imperial system is finished.

So, I think one of the things that was very striking to me, in continuation of what has been brought up so far, is what you presented in your latest paper, which I think was most profound, because it actually got to the question, and challenge, of how are we going to free mankind from this sense-perceptual view that they have no power, they have no control over what is actually shaping their lives.

So, I think that people had a real sense of this, that that was the fight we put forward, that's the fight that we continue to put forward, and that is what is absolutely essential for people to come to understand, are they just going to be victims of circumstance? Are they actually going to come to understand their unique role as human beings, to actually act to change things?

DAVE CHRISTIE: Yeah, I would just add that, you look at the last — because, Lyn, as you've identified the 70% of Americans, or maybe it's even higher, who hate Obama, and would love to see him gone, but then you say, "well, where's the action?" And on the one hand, we obviously run into a lot of people who want that done, but the idea is, "well, we can't get him out." And I think this is a reflection of the fact that, for 13 years, since, really 9/11 happened, and the Bush administration coming in, you've had, effectively, a policy of police-state. And Snowden I think did an important — well, what he did was important, but I think the interview and what he laid out in terms of principles, that there are certain things you would be willing to die for, and obviously, the nation is one of them. But I think that outlook, for a lot of people, now, they've been worn down by this constant police-state apparatus, the perpetual war program, and get into this idea that we couldn't get Obama out, when, if you just take a step back and you look at it: You have the Benghazi selection committees, which could send Obama to prison; you have the mounting scandals, or crimes I guess I should say, around the Veterans Administration, which really, actually, I watched a thing with Caddell and Schoen, where they made the point that this is actually Obamacare in action, and if you think this is evil and disgusting to have people who fought for this nation, dying in the hallways of our Veterans' hospitals, then just realize that this is what the real nature of Obamacare is, which we, of course identified.

And I think that, you look at all these things that are just piling up on Obama, there should be a certain sense, in the American people, of "Damn! We could get this guy out! We've got him on the ropes." But instead, it's this kind of wore-down sense of not being able to do anything. And I think it also comes from not having a sense of where to go.

And to come back to the importance of the dialogue that was opened up, in terms of what Bill Clinton had done, in putting the Glass-Steagall question on the table, and the related derivatives and so forth, what he identified with the Commodities Futures Modernization Act, but that's an important — because that's where we're going to go!

And if you look at what you see going on in Europe, that is actually one of the key elements — Marine Le Pen has referenced Glass-Steagall; you see this in the British, you see this in Italy, where there's what? 12 different Glass-Steagall bills in the parliament there. And it reminds me, actually at the beginning of the Iraq War, coming after 9/11, and there was this consolidation in Europe, and Lyn, you were in the center of it, particularly with the British, bringing you on, and BBC had you on and number of times as a spokesman for the network that we represent in the United States, to say, "No, we're not going along with this war program." Which now, we can bring that together, and I think we just now have to hammer at the American people that there is no reason for this kind of cynicism or pessimism, that we couldn't him out, because we've got him on the rope. And now you've got this formation of a grouping that's coming together which could unite with this Eurasian perspective, which is just huge right now.

LAROUCHE: Well, you could take the Snowden case as a good example, a barometer of what you want to think about: Because the Snowden case is an example of an attempt to terrorize, all the people who would normally, in government and associated with government, would resist. And you see, in the case of Snowden, you see that he happens to escape from and resist against this process, and it's freaked out Obama and everybody else, the fact that he's still running lost.

Now, what's happened, is we just had a broadcast, with him, done by a U.S. station, which was one hour long, and addressed the options. Now, the fact that Snowden has broken the barriers, broken the chain, in this way and has gotten by with it this far, has freaked out Obama, totally. But it's freaked out Obama, totally, precisely because if people like Snowden lives, then he's defeated. But if they kill Snowden, Snowden becomes a martyr. And this, you would say now, that Obama is clearly on the downside. He's ready to be dumped. The British monarchy is ready to be dumped; therefore, the British monarchy and its agent, Obama, will now do anything, to kill anybody, or everybody, that gets in their way. Because, including the intimidation of people, is the British Empire and its stooge Obama, unable to stay in power.

So that what happened with Kesha's campaign, for example, Kesha actually won — why? Look at what happened — look at what happened to the Democratic Party in Kesha's campaign for Senate, hmm? Look at it now. What happened is, the Democratic Party was called into attacking her! Not merely withholding support, but actually attacking her!

Now, where is the Democratic Party going to go now, in Texas? It has no future! Because the Democratic Party in Texas was being run by the Republican Party! That's how the thing worked. So therefore, the Democratic Party as a whole, has to dump Obama, or it will no longer be a political party in the United States. So therefore, you're at a situation where reality — people think that it's the contest, it's competition, it's not. What moves history is not competition; that's Hollywood fakery, that's mythology.

What moves history, is when a population moves to free itself of oppression! Obama is an instrument of oppression against the people of the United States; the Bush family was also a bunch of oppressors, of the people of the United States. The Bush family's loyalty was attached to Prescott Bush's connections, right? Prescott Bush was the generator of the Bush family, and Moses would have nothing to do with that Bush!

So therefore, what you have, is you have a crooked bunch, a bunch of scoundrels, which came out of Wall Street, usually comes out of Wall Street for the United States. So the point is, the American people, one-on-one, have become cowards. But, the irony of the circumstance means that they can't react that way. So the Snowden case, the phenomenon, including that broadcast, which was just done this weekend, that spells the death knell of Obama!

So therefore, the result is, the British and Obama are going to try to go to thermonuclear war, to warn that that is exactly what is going on, because only when the American people get the idea that if they don't dump Obama, they're going to be in a thermonuclear war, that is the one thing that's going to turn things around.

And what happened in France, just now, with Le Pen, this thing was a break in the British power. Also, there was an election, an odd election in England, which typifies a movement in that direction. The development — look, the development of a triad, of Russia, China, and India, do you realize what part of the population of the planet, what part of the territory of planet that represents? There's only one thing that can compete with that, that in itself, and that's the British Empire, which controls Africa, it controls much of Central and South America, financially and otherwise; right now, it controls Japan. So these are the realities.

So history is moving to a breaking point, and what Kesha did, is an important part of the breaking point. Because the Democratic Party that voted against her, on behalf of the Republican Party, has been so discredited that if the Democratic Party actually begins to move, it will hit Texas also in the movement — and California as well. So what we've done so far has been a success, both in what is happening today, or tomorrow, and what happened this past week: That those two elections, as tied together, actually are an emblematic expression of what's about to happen, one way or the other throughout the United States.

And I would think, the likely thing is that Bill Clinton, if he's still around, and he is so far, still around, if he does what he is threatening to do, Bill Clinton is close to the edge, where his influence can turn the whole thing in the United States around. Because he does represent what is needed: A solution. He hasn't got the full solution, but he moves in that direction. And it will go to the Democratic Party, because the Republican Party is, you know, they're confused, — and sometimes, worse than confused. Because they're so attracted to money, that they forgot their souls! [laughter] And lost them someplace in the woods, or the swamps!

So the point is, we're on the edge of the potentiality of a great change, Le Pen's action in France typifies as a detonator, of the change which is coming on.

OGDEN: Well, there was also, in her case, in the case of Nigel Farage in the U.K., and also in Italy, and also in Germany, there's also a strong reaction against the British Empire's attempt to throw Europe against Russia. And they've come out, those different parties, and said, "there's no reason why we should be allowing ourselves to be used as cannon fodder against Russia, when our real interests lie in developing the relationship between Europe, Eastern Europe, Russia, and then the rest of Eurasia." And so, that's also a major element of what happened with this political earthquake.

LAROUCHE: Yeah, but the point is, we had a problem with some of our own people, who didn't understand the significance of what Kesha's campaign was. They were looking for a one-shot effect. They didn't look for lighting a fuse on a bomb, which is what they've done so far: They lit the fuse on the bomb that'll bring down that crowd.

OGDEN: Yeah, I thought it was fascinating that on Friday, you went after the fallacy of politics today, the idea of opportunism, that you run a campaign, say anything to get elected, to be popular, as opposed to exactly what Kesha pulled off in Texas: Which is that, you introduced the perspective of the future, which nobody else was willing to even consider.

LAROUCHE: Just think of all those dumb Democrats that voted against Kesha! [laughter] Where are they going next? Who's going to feed them?

ROGERS: Well, I think we're going to have be there to pick them up off the ground. Because, they don't know where they're going next! And that's the thing, is that they never had any plan. And it's funny, because in the Houston Chronicle, right after the campaign, you know, they tried to make some snide remark and say that now that we have effectively removed Kesha Rogers from the scene — which, I can tell them one thing, they haven't removed me from the scene! — then we can actually start talking about real issues, such as how we're going to deal with the water crisis! As though they have a solution to deal with the water crisis! Or, as though my platform was not addressing that in the first place.

But I think the real flank that's going to catch these guys off guard, is what Michael and I are doing, in continuing the collaboration around the Texas-California alliance, and the perspective which that represents around this unified idea of bringing about the United States intervention into this trans-Pacific alliance, this trans-Eurasian alliance, and what Russia, and China, and India are doing, and actually bringing around the United States' rightful place in that.

And I think it's absolutely fascinating, being here in San Francisco, and working with Michael in the context of his campaign in continuing that collaboration. Because, it's not going away: The crisis of the drought devastating Texas and California, people are going to have to address this reality now, more than ever. But the Democratic Party has, neither in Texas, nor in California, have no solutions as to what's going to actually address this crisis, or how you even deal with it, because they have no real science-driver perspective for the future.

But you can see the response from the Chinese community, for the Eurasian perspective, here in San Francisco. And you can tell that this perspective, and bringing in this community, together with Michael's campaign to actually take up what the United States has represented in the past with this commitment to Eurasian development for the United States, China, Russia, that people understand that we're the only ones that represent that forward insight, or foresight, into where the nation is going.

And, that the Democratic Party has said, they're going to have to be picked up off the ground, and a lot of people are looking at the Texas situation and my campaign — and yes, they've become a little bit demoralized. And people say, "you know, you can't beat the big money." But I see it as, look, they only had a (inaudible), because you think about, in the course of history, as I was mentioning to people before, there were major battles that Lincoln lost in the Civil War, but he had the foresight into the future, and what he was really fighting for, that these guys, they could not beat. And that's why, in the end, he was able to win the war, he was able to gain victory over the enemies of humanity, over the Confederacy, over the Empire, because he knew what he was actually fighting. It wasn't just about one battle, but it was about giving the population a real sense of what the fight is, why we fight, what victory actually looks like. So I think it's pretty exciting.

RACHEL BROWN: People know right now, implicitly, that there has to be a drastic change in the axioms, but particularly, I think we have to confront people's axioms of no growth, that is, inherently the issue. And just on that, Obama's pushing right out now, another bill, another executive order, essentially, on cutting carbon emissions and reducing coal, and etc., and meanwhile, he's been cutting fusion, which would be the only way to actually surpass this low-level technology is destroying the future.

But, implicitly, in this question of fusion, it is actually, for one, the other wise of the question of thermonuclear war. As we noted in a recently article published by our organization, that Representative McCormack, in 1980, said that fusion would be the largest deterrent to war on the planet. And you also have the very interesting fact, that fusion reactions produced by man on the planet, the temperature of the plasma is over the temperature of Sun: 100 million degrees or more, in the fusion reaction on Earth, which surpasses as you noted in your recent paper, Mr. LaRouche, the temperature of anything else within the Solar System.

So you do get a sense that the power of man's mind, is the biggest force in the universe, is the most complete force in the universe, and therefore, you have everything else is subsumed under the time and power, the process of man's mind, of the cognitive development of man's understanding and action in the universe, not the other way around. Not from dead space, not from living space. And this is where we have to go: This is the opposite of the deadly, boring, pessimistic, no-growth orientation that's been pushed on people, which they really don't want, that we've got to get back.

CHRISTIE: Well, on that front, a lot of people identify the Green with the left or the Democrats, but, this is the same program as the Republicans, when they go along with this no-growth, or in their case, "we're for drilling and fracking" which is really the same reversal of development, because that's what the Green policy is, is, you know, our Constitution is not simply some rules. It defines — well, the nature of a Constitution is what does it actually take to exist? Well, as we see within the biosphere, what it takes to exist, and maintain what you think is a certain state, is actually reflected as a process of development. And our Constitution, as what it says concerning the posterity, that a commitment not just to these generations and the general welfare of these generations, but "to the posterity," is embedded within what Hamilton laid out in terms of the economic program, that you had to have this type of progress, which is the notion behind a credit system.

And if you go against that progress, whether it be from the standpoint of the stupid Republicans saying, "we're for fracking and this low-level technology," or for the outright genocidal program of what the Green agenda says, which is to just go back to the stone age, or something, then you are promoting — you're going against the Constitution, you're going against this question of development. You're going against progress of what it is to actually be human.

LAROUCHE: Well, what happened, the British Empire took us over. They took us over, through people like some of our Presidents, one whom we expelled. But we had in general, what's happened is the Democratic and Republican Party have both been following policies, ever since John F. Kennedy's death, assassination, and that of his brother Robert: That the United States, and I've said it again and again, the United States has had a net decline, in the productivity per capita of population of the United States, ever since that time. The process started with the assassination of John F. Kennedy, which was essentially, officially, a Republican thing, but it was not just a Republican thing; it was a foreign operation.

So they got us into doing that. And what happened then, with going into the Indo-China War, which was a folly which was only enabled by the assassination of the President, John F. Kennedy. Kennedy was against the Indo-China War. Now, just think about drugs in the United States, which started, when? After a couple of years of the Indo-China War, that's when the drug traffic — the United States has never recovered from that. The drug problem, and related problems, insanity, mass insanity of various forms, have taken over. The entertainment culture has degenerated.

But in point of fact, in terms of physical economy, physical economy per capita, and physical economy as a ration of the entire U.S. population, the United States, since the beginning of the 1970s, about 1971-72, the United States has been in a process of progressive decline, at an accelerating rate. And the greatest rate of acceleration, came after the ouster of Bill Clinton, who was actually defeated by a fraud, organized by the British Empire, largely through the cooperation of the leadership of the Republican Party, in cooperating with the British Empire, in sinking President Clinton.

President Clinton left office, and signed away Glass-Steagall. Why did he do it? He said why he did it: He said he was down, nobody was supporting Glass-Steagall, and he thought it was futile for him to join the crowd, when only about 2 or 3% or so forth, of the whole government would defend Glass-Steagall! The destruction of Glass-Steagall under young Bush, as already started under George H.W. Bush, who became the most unpopular Bush you ever saw — he was the burning Bush, but burned out Bush.

And so, therefore, what's happened ever since that point, is we have been experiencing a catastrophic collapse of the living standards and hope of the future, of our civilization, of our United States in particular. So the point is, these guys are killing the United States! The people who went with this kind of policy, who went with the Green policy! The Green policy was forced on the United States, by the British Empire! It was the British Empire that brought the Green policy into the United States, under British direction, under the whole panoply of these people, during the 1960s — that's when it started.

And it was Bertrand Russell, the virtual Satan of the 20th century, who organized all of this. And anybody who studies, what Bertrand Russell did, and what his influence was, knows that Bertrand Russell was the Satan of the 20th century, a living Satan. And it's under the influence of that living Satan, and his followers, like Tony Blair — Tony Blair is a close comparable figure to Russell. Tony Blair is a purely evil man, like Bertrand Russell. He's not as capable as Bertrand Russell was: Bertrand Russell was almost Satan himself.

OGDEN: Yeah. You know, John F. Kennedy was a direct — direct! — opponent of Bertrand Russell. Bertrand Russell opposed Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and said Kennedy's strategy was wrong, in order to avoid thermonuclear war. And I think, what you've said about Bertrand Russell as the modern Zeus, the Zeus of the 20th century, Kennedy, in his first — or his only inaugural address, when he first became President, identified directly the policy of Zeus, as the common enemies of mankind: He said: "The trumpet summons us again" to the long twilight struggle against what? "the common enemies of man — tyranny, poverty, disease, and war itself." And what do these have in common? These are all the policies of Zeus, or Bertrand Russell, to reduce the world's population! And on the other side, Kennedy was committed to the growth of mankind as a species.

LAROUCHE: And he practiced it.

OGDEN: Right!

LAROUCHE: And he was killed because he did. He was murdered by British orders.

BILL ROBERTS: I think this is extremely important, the point you're making about this Green policy coming in, when Kennedy dies, and I think you made the same point to this Russian gathering, where you said, that it was the effect of what Hilbert and Bertrand Russell did by replacing science with mathematics; the effect of that after Kennedy died, with this Green policy was the key factor in destroying the trans-Atlantic economies.

Because, if you think about it, what's the Green policy? The Green policy is the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and it's a replacement of physical chemistry with mathematics, which, at its core is exactly the same thing that Leibniz attacked Newton for, which is the idea that the universe is composed of space and time, which even God and the human mind have to somehow obey the pact, obey what is. And once you get rid of the idea that the human mind actually creates the future, it's not bounded in the time of the past, but it actually creates the future, and you have that as a policy of a country, then, what you have is population that can more and more think in terms of what the relationship between the human mind and the universe is, but only when you destroy that, — only when that's gotten rid of, do you get the pessimism that we see now, where people actually don't think that the future exists. They don't have an idea of the future, they have of time, as you said, on Wednesday, but they don't have an idea of the future, in terms of how the future actually subsumes what we think that time is from a biological standpoint.

SARE: You know, yesterday, we had a celebration of the birthday of one of our members in New Jersey, and someone recited Shelley's Masque of Anarchy, which I hadn't looked at for some time. And there are so many delightful aspects of that poem, that are very highly relevant for this moment, today. And it's very striking, because what he does, is he also defines, slavery from the Zeusian standpoint versus freedom, and the actual power of hope, this beaten down waif that he introduces. But you get a sense of where the real power lies, which is not in the might and the terror, and blood-curdling actions of anarchy, of Zeus. Anyway, it was just very, very striking.

LAROUCHE: Well, the point is, it's perfectly correct to say that the British Empire is intrinsically a Satanic force, as the Roman Empire before it was. And the Zeus figure was also the same thing: It's a Satanic force. And the United States is being controlled from the stop by a Satanic force, and that Satanic force is identified exactly right there. And that's the problem, so many of our people are living under the reign of Satan. And he doesn't pay well. [laughter] Except to the most corrupt, and then he gets them, too!

SARE: Well, to bring up another important poet, because one of the things we discussed in this arc of crucial interventions, Mike Steger's election tomorrow, and then, in less than two weeks, we are celebrating the 30th anniversary of the creation of the Schiller Institute, by your wife. And I think it could not be a more appropriate moment to be observing this.

LAROUCHE: I think a little success would help. [laughter] But I think we have it. It's the attempt to deny the fact that this is possible, is what the problem is. But we do have the ability to win, because the enemy has used up his means. He's at his last step, to contain power. Because what happened in Eurasia, the trans-Atlantic region has been declining as a result of these policies, the British policy, been declining through modern times, since Roosevelt — the United States has been degenerating. And even some of the good things that were done along have been crushed in the net effect of the process as a whole.

So, we've been cheated, we've been cheated by people who were stupid, who were stupid enough to submit, or frightened enough to submit, into these kinds of things. Now, the point has come, the testing point for the continued existence of the human species is right on our doorstep. If the British succeed in using Obama, continually, to set us into motion for a thermonuclear war, then that is going to be, literally, Hell. So therefore, if you're against Satan, you have to be against Obama, who's only an agent of Satan. But, there's a good place to start: Remove him from office. And I can guarantee you, you remove Obama from office — do that! — and the margin of victory against Satan can be won, that is, the British Empire.

The Queen of England is now, actually, wearing the costume of Satan. And you have to take her and her whole family, and dump them from power, all kinds of power. Let 'em go bankrupt: You've got people in Britain now ready to dump them. France, with Le Pen, is ready to dump Satan, which is called the Socialist Party of France. Opportunity awaits us.

CHRISTIE: Well, I just think as an important reflection point on that is, the formation of the Schiller Institute was literally on the heels of the announcement by Ronald Reagan, of the Strategic Defense Initiative, where, had that been adopted, which was not just simply to end nuclear warfare, but it was to go to a higher level of economic development which could have secured that. And every one of the policies that you've laid out, starting out with the Productive Triangle, after that in terms of Europe, and then expanded to the Eurasian Land-Bridge, and eventually the World Land-Bridge, this is now on the table! And I think the importance of this even, as a reflection point of where we would have been had we adopted the Strategic Defense Initiative, but now, with really, not just a last chance, it is the future, this direction that Eurasia is going right now, is the future. But as you've identified, the British know that and they know their only future is to destroy that future, and make mankind to submit to the Zeusian outlook.

OGDEN: All right! Well, are there any last words? Or...

LAROUCHE: Good words. [laughter]

OGDEN: Good words from out there? If not, I think that's a concluding point for our discussion today. Thank you everybody, for joining us. And we'll have our eyes on Mike Steger in San Francisco, coming up tomorrow.