LaRouchePAC Policy Committee, June 23, 2014, Transcript
June 24, 2014 • 5:22AM

The video presentation can be found here, and the audio can be found here.

MATTHEW OGDEN: Good afternoon. Today is June 23rd, 2014. My name is Matthew Ogden, and you're joining us for our weekly discussion with the LaRouche PAC Policy Committee. We're broadcasting today over Google Hangouts On Air, and we are joined by video today by Mr. Lyndon LaRouche. Lyn, happy to have you.

And we're joined as well by Bill Roberts, joining us from Detroit, Michigan; Dave Christie, joining us from Seattle, Washington; Michael Steger, joining us from San Francisco, California; and Rachel Brown, joining us from up in Boston, Massachusetts. And here in the studio, I am joined by Diane Sare, as well as Kesha Rogers.

So, I'm going to give it to you to make any opening remarks, if you would like to.

LYNDON LAROUCHE: Yes. What we've come into a period, as we see the crisis in Argentina, Uruguay, and going further, we're seeing a countdown now which is a breakup kind of situation, that this thing is about to explode or implode, immediately now. And I think we have the evidence coming in rapidly that the bail-out/bail-in system is in full ploy now, and that this attack on Argentina set this into motion already.

So we're headed for a world war, a global world war, because when this kind of issue is posed, you can only go one way. For example, Argentina can not capitulate, it can not possibly. Uruguay has joined them. They're going to block, they're going to block. We probably will have throughout the entirety of South America, more or less of the totality is going to block! This is going to be an international block.

The other side of the thing, is that Wall Street is about to bankrupt, itself, and that's what this crisis is. So we're now on the edge, of the edge of World War III, and we just have to figure our way out, from this point on. There's no longer peaceful solutions, there are no longer so-called rational decisions, there are no longer these kinds of agreements that settle problems, we're going to a totally unsettled relationship among states, throughout the planet.

And that's where we are now, and I think we should take it away from there.

OGDEN: Yeah, well, we do see an open war, literally, between Argentina and other nations in South America versus Wall Street and the City of London explicitly, with these hedge funds, or vulture funds demanding that Argentina relinquish their sovereignty and pay, dollar on the dollar for these completely usurious debts. And Cristina Kirchner has refused thus far, and has said, "no, we are a sovereign nation and we're not going to let the British or Wall Street rob our sovereignty." And as you said, the President of Uruguay has backed her up, and so have the other nations of Mercosur and other countries in South America. So we really do see a breakout of the war, between the British/Wall Street versus Argentina on that front.

KESHA ROGERS: Yeah, that's the same thing, I think, that breakout is also exactly what you're seeing within the institutions of government within our Congress, and as I reported earlier — many people know I had an opportunity to participate in a series of meetings throughout the Congress both in Republican and Democratic offices — and one thing that's absolutely clear is that, one, we are not going to be able to survive the onrushing breakdown crisis, and the threat of bail-in that is coming on rapidly, and as people are looking at the situation in Argentina or in Austria, and also throughout the entire trans-Atlantic region, they know that, as we have been very clear on, this bail-in is coming on now. And if they don't immediately break with this Wall Street system, break with Obama, then that is going to be the end of the United States as we know it.

And so, you think about what's become very clear to people, in terms of the impact that we had with my campaign, in going directly after this Wall Street apparatus and putting the destruction of bail-in and bail-out on the table, that if we didn't put an end to this, then Congress was going to face all Hell. And you now see more and more Congress members coming together from both sides of the aisle, realizing that they better take a very hard look at what happened with the Cantor case, where the population is not going to sit back and allow for this Wall Street apparatus to continue to destroy the nation and to derive us to the brings World War III and thermonuclear war.

So it's very interesting: You look at the breakout in opposition to the President, coming from such people as Barbara Lee, collaboration with people such as Congressman Yoho, or Congressman Conyers. And there was a very interesting development that took place today, or, I guess it was yesterday, where Congressman Walter Jones, who has been an outspoken critic of the administration and of this war policy, basically has said, now is the time that we have to, one, bring out the 28 pages, we have to come together, both Democrats and Republicans, to oppose this war drive immediately. And I think more people are starting to understand that in order to do that, you have to break with Wall Street and break with Obama.

DIANE SARE: I think one of the big challenges is the question of time. Because I can see the Iraq war question as a certain watershed for this Congress, a moment like we had last August, where the American people bombarded the Congress. And Lyn, you were playing a very crucial role at that time, when Obama wanted to launch his strikes on Syria, without going to the Congress. And people made it very clear: This is an impeachable offense. The President can not declare war, it's in our Constitution that only the Congress can declare a war of aggression; we were not attacked, American interests were not attacked by Syria. There was no basis for this.

Similarly in Iraq, Lyn, you made a call for the Americans to be out of Iraq, to be evacuated from Iraq. That has to be done, and the Congress — people think they have more time than they have. And I think that is one of our biggest fights right now. They think that, "Oh, yes, we can see bail-in, but that's somewhere down the road." I mean, they can do a little more tweaking and little more pumping, and little more whatever! "And we'll just keep it up a little longer, until we're ready to deal with it." And that somehow, this question which we have got to break open: They don't have time! Obama has to be thrown out of there, immediately, and we have to take the emergency measures, starting with the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall and the whole package, the Four Laws.

DAVE CHRISTIE: You know, just to throw into that, because I do think the gut reaction of the American people concerning something as insane as a third Iraq war, goes go to the heart, and we did see the reaction that they had coming out against Syria, and similarly, I could expect that the thought of going to a war with Iraq. But I actually think we should be careful in calling it an Iraq war. I think what Lyn just laid out very clearly on the World War danger is obviously how we should situate it.

But more succinctly, on the Iraq war thing, look at what we're actually beginning to see: You know, the ISIS forces, which are very minimum are funded by the Saudis, but really have been backed up by Obama, this is the crowd that's been going against the Assad in Syria. And now, they have access to large weapons that they've gotten from the Iraqi military, which are U.S. weapons, and now are bringing them across back the other way, away from Iraq and into Syria!

And so I think that goes to the heart of Lyn had actually said coming after the death of Qaddafi, the brutal murder of Qaddafi to silence what the real story was, is that they were going to move into Syria and Iran. Obviously, now, we've seen that go for an even much larger domain of warfare, with the Asia Pivot, with the situation in Ukraine, but you know, what Lyn had identified back then, was that this was going to war against Russia and China. And again, I think Syria, in terms of the question of the naval basis of Russia, we should always just keep in mind, that Syria and Crimea are the crucial points for Russia. So, I would just say, we should caution in calling this a "Iraq war," given what the question of Syria is, and just situate it in the context of a larger, global war.

RACHEL BROWN: Just on the question of Argentina, just on this question of the bail-in, she [President Fernandez de Kirchner] did point out the fact that this is a collapse of the global, international financial system. It doesn't have to do with Argentina, 'cause that's just a little country. But you know, in South America, they really don't care that much about it, but what they care about is the bankruptcy of the financial system. That's why they're going after Argentina in this case.

So she points out the fact that this is the mode, we are in bail-in/bail-out — bail-out didn't work, we're now in bail-in mode. Bail-out was never intended to work, it never could, so it really was intended for this implosion of the system.

And anyway, now we have a court ruling out of New York which is just another demonstration that the U.S. is not acting as a sovereign nation, but it's acting under the realm of a British mode of thinking, usury, a pound of flesh, etc. And she makes this point that this debt that's being created out of these hedge funds, didn't go through a cycle of physical production, and that's why we've got so much of it, and it doesn't mean anything.

So there's also this discussion internationally, of a credit system, as we saw out of Russia, with Glazyev, etc. So, we do see a mode of shifting towards this question of physical production, but we've got to do more of it. There's no reason any more to accept any type of fictitious financial value, this is insane. So, we've got to go with this four-point program and fight for that. I think the American people are ready for that

OGDEN: Well, I think that what you started with, Lyn, that this is a world war, and that what's driving this, is the collapse of the British system, the collapse of the British monetary-financial system. And when you look at what is happening in Eurasia with the triad of China-, Russia, and India, versus the destruction of the trans-Atlantic system. And now, what Obama is doing with the Green policy, for example, with the carbon-capping policy: This is a genocide policy. And you give nation like Argentina a choice, "are you going to commit suicide, along with this collapsing trans-Atlantic system? Or, are you going to join the trans-Pacific, are you going to join the Eurasian system?"

And last weekend at the Schiller Institute conference in New York City, that was very clearly elaborated. There was a message from Sergei Glazyev, advisor to President Putin. There was a speech given by a top-ranking military officer from China, on the New Silk Road. We had message from Natalia Vitrenko in Ukraine. The trans-Pacific, future orientation, which is the program that Lyn, you and Helga, have been advocating for more than 30 or 40 years, was represented versus a world war policy, which is a genocide policy coming from the City of London.

And I know Argentina very well knows that their enemy is the British, and none other than the British. This goes back to the Malvinas War in the 1980s; Lyn's role in advising Argentina to launch the "debt bomb," as was elaborated on the Friday webcast, this last Friday. And the clarity, that the enemy of mankind is the British Empire, I think is very apparent in this case.

LAROUCHE: Well, let's put a little characterization on this process. The British Empire was always a Satanic empire. Now the difference is, that in Britain, you have lots of people who are not Satanic. It's true, absolutely true. But the point is the Queen represents a Satanic force. The British monarchy, which is an imperial monarchy; it is not British monarchy, it's an imperial monarchy. And the Queen, herself, has emphasized, that she is the Empress. Therefore, that's what the issue is.

So you're dealing with, Obama is a Satanic figure. His policies are Satanic. The Queen is Satanic. And therefore, what you're getting is a war of people to defend themselves against a Satanic, global force, which includes the British Empire, which includes Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a part of the British Empire. Saudi Arabia is a Satanic force, as an extension of the British Empire. Now, the rest of the world is being told, "If you want peace, you submit: You submit to Satan."

And therefore, what's happening, is the world is being driven toward a global war, at a very rapid rate. Look at what happened with the Argentina case. The announcement from New York City, of the court in New York City. That action by the court in New York City set into motion a series of connections, which are leading toward thermonuclear war. Because Argentina can not submit, it would become extinct. Most of South America realizes that. They must support Argentina. Not for the sake of Argentina, but for the sake of entire continent.

So, the time has come to throw this President out of office. Anyone who fails do their part, to throw this President out of office, is, in fact, a traitor to the United States. When you have a poisonous snake in your bed, and you insist on not removing it, you are committing suicide.

But we must now do that: Throw this bum out! That is the only solution. Any variant on that, is thermonuclear world war, because Russia is not going to capitulate. Eurasia is not going to capitulate! So you're headed toward, in one sense, you're headed toward a very early thermonuclear war, globally! The only solution is, throw Obama out of office now; let Wall Street go bankrupt, which is what it really is in principle. And we can proceed, immediately, in the United States, to set forth a new program, a new set of relations, and the whole mess will be under control.

If we fail to do that, our failure would be our own, self-inflicted doom. You can no longer — no longer, submit to this blackmail. There's a point at which you can no longer submit. The time has come when you have to take actions which are necessary to save civilization. Throwing Obama out of office will be sufficient, to set the chain reaction needed, to get him out of office and to stop this whole process.

CHRISTIE: You know, on that note, I think the next six weeks, just given that we actually have the Congress in session, at least for five of those weeks, the concept of the "Guns of August," because when the Congress leaves after that six-week period, it'll basically be the summer break here, and I think the notion of the "Guns of August" this August, has a particular edge to it, given that it is the hundredth anniversary of the war beginning in 1914; and that, of course, was that book The Guns of August which discussed that period as leading up to the war beginning at the end of August. Now, I'm not saying that we have until August to wait to impeach Obama, but we obviously have this next six-week period to just go for an all-out drive to throw him out!

Now, I just want to bring something up that I've referenced before: You know, you go back to this article written by Mackinder, where he discussed what was called "The Geographical Pivot of History," written in 1904, which really was about a decade before World War I began, but in that article, he describes the flows of history as far as he sees it, of the Mongol hordes descending out of the grasslands of Russia and Mongolia and so forth, and coming in to conquer Europe, and going back. And then, the Mongol hordes coming yet again, and conquering. And he goes back and forth, describing these "Mongol hordes," but at a certain point then, he lets the cat out of the bag: He says, what are the new Mongol hordes that would be coming from Asia, from Russia? It's railroads.

And it discusses the fact that in the late 1800s, based on the American system, and what Abraham Lincoln had done, that this was the discussion amongst Eurasia, which was to build what then was really the Eurasian Land-Bridge, with the Trans-Siberian Railroad, the Baghdad-to-Berlin Railroad, the rail networks of Sun Yat-sen.

And so, here we are again, where China has said, we're moving forward on the Eurasian Land-Bridge, we're moving forward on the high-speed rail network for Africa, and we do this not as a colonial power but as force committed to development. And I think obviously, what was discussed in New York, is that policy. The only way we could actually have peace amongst nations, is through this economic development, and the British Empire knows it, and are unleashing World War III to prevent it.

So I think these next six weeks, that should give a knife-edge to making sure that we get Obama out, as the only way to stop this thing.

ROGERS: I just wanted to bring up something, just thinking about the discussion that we had last night, with associates here, and one of the things that you brought up, Mr. LaRouche, is this idea that the responsibility lies on us, and particularly we in the United States. Once we get this President out, if we do what we are constitutionally commissioned to do, which is to bring nations together, into coherence with the solution, that's the real focus.

But one of the things that I'm thinking about, is that's not a requirement of just legislation. We're not talking about — when we're talking about the Four Laws, that's not just a resolution, or legislation for people to adopt, and pick and choose, as they will. But it is really the conception that there has to be a cultural transformation and a transformation in the thinking of how people think about the relationships of mankind, what mankind really, innately is. And that's why I find it so important, when you put out your Four Law and the principles starting with Glass-Steagall, the embodiment of that was the Vernadskyian principle of the creative nature of man. That's how you're going to crush the British Empire. That's how you're going to get human beings to see, their difference as uniquely human, as opposed to animal, and that these Four Laws could not be distinguished in and of themselves without actually looking at that quality of mankind which has been suppressed, and which people really don't have a conception of.

And I'll just make this point briefly: You know, one of the things that I found quite profound, is, at the Schiller Institute 30th Anniversary, you know, we had all these individuals who were participating, and sitting on the panels; they come from different institutions, within the Presidency and within the institutes of the government who have a very sound understanding of the strategic situation, and the war threat, and everything else that was going on. But, when I looked at these individuals, who were on the stage and really giving people a sense of the danger that we face, they were completely transformed when these same individuals were sitting out in the audience and they were participating in the discussion that was led up by Helga Zepp-LaRouche on the question of poetry, creativity, and Classical culture — and then, they heard our Schiller Institute Chorus sing the works of Brahms and Bach. And they had a real sense that the transformation and bringing forth these needed solutions, was only going to come about through that type of cultural transformation, and it wasn't just about legislation and policy.

And I think that's the subject of discussion we have to get across here, because that's the only way that people are going to understand how to crush the Empire, or how to break themselves free of this Empire, and bring about that needed solution, as you've been describing.

LAROUCHE: Well, the obvious thing you have to understand is this, that is the area of default, that when you try to be practical, and say, let's avoid this problem, that's default. You're not addressing the remedy. You can not simply say, "don't do that any more," to, say, a perpetual drunk. You tell them not get drunk any more, but what you're dealing with is this kind problem. You've got to do something to get that drunk under supervision, and hopefully inspiration, not to be a drunk any more, not to be a moral degenerate any more.

Now, in history, we have the case of the so-called tradition of Zeus versus Prometheus: The idea of Zeus versus Prometheus is the characteristic definition, of Satanism from society.

Now, what we have on our hands, is we have a government, the British government, which is Satanic in this sense, that is, the British Empire is a Satanic force. Wall Street is a Satanic force. Wall Street does not produce. Wall Street rapes, it does not produce.

So therefore, the point is, you have to have a program, a science-driver program, which constantly increases the productive powers of labor of mankind, within the Solar System. That's science.

Now, we have a government which is intrinsically Satanic, the government of Bush-Cheney was intrinsically Satanic. The government of Obama is intrinsically Satanic. The Queen of England, her dynasty, is intrinsically Satanic. What's happening in Central Asia, Saudi Arabia, is predominantly, intrinsically Satanic — the ISIS forces are intrinsically Satanic.

Russia is not Satanic. It's anti-Satanic. China, today, is anti-Satanic; India, today, under the present leadership, is again anti-Satanic. Therefore, opposing Satan is not sufficient. You have to destroy Satan. There's only one way to destroy Satan: It's to stop being one. And therefore what we have in Wall Street, we have a Satanic force! That's the problem. Because the history of mankind, is that if you do not progress to higher states of development of human species, if you do not extend the power of mankind, to deal within the Solar System — you know, we don't have to fly out to make visits to distant stars, or even to distant planets; what we have to do, as mankind, is create the instruments by which we can effect what the distant planets do, what the different parts of the Solar System do, and that's our remedy: It's creativity.

The Green policy is intrinsically a satanic policy: Anybody in the United States today, who's for a Green policy, is a child of Satan. That's a fact! When you're talking like, forces like this, suddenly in the world you have all these nations, you have billions of people, all these nations are sitting there, allowing themselves to be destroyed, why? If you look back at the Zeus/Prometheus conflict, that's exactly what it is! It's creativity, human creativity.

And Vernadsky, of course, is the best typification of that in a long series of developments of humanity. His understanding of the Solar System, something beyond that had never been realized in that degree so far. Therefore, you can not be content to saying, "stop bad things," because if you don't do things that overturn bad things, you're condoning bad things! Therefore, that's the issue: You can not go around and say, "well, we're not going to do anything. We're not going to do anything bad." By not doing something, they are doing something bad!

When they condoned — when people out there, you know, you have three-quarters of the American citizens hate Obama. They really hate Obama, it's really like hating Satan, which is the appropriate way to look at him. But what do they do? Nothing! Nothing! They're waiting to be freed from oppression, they're not willing to free themselves, from an oppression!

All you have to do, is take three-quarters of the American people, who hate everything Obama represents! Who know that he's their enemy; they're afraid to take him on. But you know, with just one swing of votes and actions by leading forces in the Congress and elsewhere, Obama would vanish! And there would be no danger of world war, now!

The failure to throw Obama out of office, is the greatest of all sins, that any part of humanity could ever commit, because it's so easily — so easy — to remove Satan from the throne. And all you have to say, "You just got caught out. You ain't here no more, buddy." And that's the real issue here: The fact that people are intimidated by what they consider "authority." And they actually consider Satanic qualities as a ruling authority. "You can't go against authority!"

But when the authority is Satanic, what're you supposed to do? Go against it.

OGDEN: Speaking of the British Empire and Wall Street being Satanic institutions, Pope Francis has recently been making a big deal about the "cult of the idolatry of money," and he also has intervened in defense of the Argentine people on this question. I just heard over the weekend, that Pope Francis excommunicated members of the mafia in Italy. Maybe he should excommunicate Tony Blair. He's already being impeached.

LAROUCHE: No, this is the issue. The issue is, yes, you can comment on, you can say these are wrong things. But what are you going to do to change them? There are people, they have sovereign rights, let's take an election: What in your heart do you believe is the truth?

Obama, you just got thrown out of office. We're free!

SARE: You know, if you take this Berlin Wall analogy, because the Wall collapsed as the result of an economic collapse, which Lyn forecast in 1983, when the Soviets rejected his offer on the Strategic Defense Initiative. And Erich Honecker had a gigantic ego, and was giving these raving speeches about a socialist reich that was going to "last a thousand years." And he gave such speech, only three weeks before the Wall fell, after which, he was rushing to get on a plane to leave.

And I had this image, because you had this total revolution in the European elections and we're seeing echoes of it now, in all these congressional votes, which are votes against Obama; where we learn that [French President] Hollande has the support of something like 3% of the population would consider voting for him. He has the dubious distinction of having of 50% of the support of the U.S. Congress! Which is at 7%.

But there he was, Hollande, on the anniversary of D-Day, hosting the Queen of England and Barack Obama, who were seated next to each other. And it struck me, if people had a sense of Classical drama and the irony, the incredible irony of these figures, pretending as if they have all this power, which doesn't exist! And that's what the American people have to get — what Lyn is saying right now, that this could easily be done, poof! and they're out, they're done! It's over! And just the incredible irony of the scene, of the Queen, who probably got pumped full of plastic to get her over there, or something — I don't know how they got her over there!

OGDEN: Bat guano.

SARE: And then, Hollande, hosting her, with his 3% approval, and Obama, who is reviled by the American people, sitting next to her. It's very rich, and we should make sure that it's fulfilled, that this legacy is ended.

BILL ROBERTS: Well, on the question of the Queen, and I think this Argentina situation is very revealing, because here you have a situation where Argentina wants to pay off its debts, and 92% of their creditors are for that. And the Empire doesn't want — they don't want the money, they want to destroy Argentina. They don't want Argentina to pay off their debt. And it gets right to point: I mean, this is the bail-in. It tells you what the monetary system is, is that it's not really a monetary system, in the sense that, they don't want the money, they want to kill the people.

And it's exactly, you have a very similar situation in Detroit. I'll just point out, that there's a point in the Detroit bankruptcy process, where there are three creditors in holding out in not accepting what ended up being a very — I mean the workers lost their health benefits and cost of living adjustments, but the cut was minimized because the banks that were involved in the derivatives got a massive haircut. But there are three creditors at this point that are holding out, and won't agree; one of them is run by one of the ministers of the Bahamas, which is a Crown Colony; and one of the other creditors that won't agree is Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway.

So, you know, what you're seeing, there is not an agreement; they will simply not make the agreement for deal, and you see a species difference is that there's two different intentions — and one is to liquidate the population. And I think most human beings at this point, realize, that if you're going to liquidate the population, if you're going to destroy the powers of the nation-state, you can't generate wealth.

And so it absolutely is headed toward a conjunctural crisis on this question of bail-in and on the question of war at the same time.

LAROUCHE: I think that's fairly precise.

CHRISTIE: Actually that's what [the late Argentine President] Nestor Kirchner said, is he said, "Dead people can't pay their debts," you know, you have to grow to pay debts.

MICHAEL STEGER: Well, it's clear that it's a question of political power. This idea that this empire's got to go for world war, you see the inherent and the intrinsic shift in the human species, that Lyn, you're pointing out with your Four Laws. We are at a point now, where you have to go towards nuclear fusion, you have to go for a broad development, not just of nations, but of a commitment towards the development of the human species. And this Empire sees it! They've now come out — I mean, just the psychological relationship in the minds of the American people, and even the people of the trans-Atlantic — of Tony Blair, Dick Cheney, George Bush, and Barack Obama, I mean, these four creatures, you just imagine Obama's appearance in Berlin in 2008 versus the one in 2013. These four figures, which have been Satanic force of war and destruction for the last 13-14 years, since 9/11, and there's now kind of a unity amongst these Satanic figures. And the apathy of the American people to resist this and reject it, is the only reason that it's still in power, it's still in place.

But this Empire is so desperate — the bail-ins! The funding, the idea that we've been training ISIS! We've been training these groups in Syria! That John Kerry, Dick Cheney, and Tony Blair all had the gall to say the same thing: "It's not our fault, Iraq's so messed up, it's not our fault, Libya's messed up." And everybody's tearing their hair out, going, "yes, it is! Yes it is! It's your fault! You idiots, you didn't even have consent of the people to do what you were doing!" You know, that people are just so enraged, that there's got to be a certain sense of commitment now. These guys could be wiped out. Like you're saying, Lyn, with a flick of the finger of Congress, they would just be banished into the wastebasket of history.

And there's got to be a sense, because there is no traditional world war any longer — there is no tanks and guns, and grinding: This is nuclear war, this human extinction. As much as they want to formulate in Classical terms, provoke Russia into a war, the military members, National Security members, people like yourself, our organization, it's clear — this is nuclear war! This is human extinction. It's not the same game as it was in 1914.

And that's a fundamental shift. The only real solution is the Four Laws and fusion. And I think this unification of these Satanists, I think we should take advantage of very explicitly right now.

SARE: You know, there's also one interesting break that came out that was reported yesterday: This New York Post article, where Hillary Clinton was described, I guess by one of her top legal advisors, when she was called by Obama on Sept. 11th, 2012, after the Benghazi attack, and told she had put out a release saying that this was in response to a video. And she said, "Well, Mr. President, this is not credible. It's Sept. 11th." And it describes an exchange between and Bill Clinton on the fact that this was absurd, that this wasn't going to work, and then ultimately that she had been put in a corner, and had ended up putting out such a release, which she herself did not believe. But the fact that this is now coming into the open, I think, creates a potential for the rift in the Democratic Party that's needed, to get this guy thrown.

OGDEN: This is in this new book [Blood Feud].

LAROUCHE: Her mistake was to go into that administration in the first place. She was lured by her own misguided political delusions. Because, if she had stayed in the Senate, where would she be today, and where would the United States be today? Her entry into the Obama administration is what has ruined her! Working for the Devil, does not produce virginity.

That's what the problem is, and that's the fact of the matter. She let her misguided intention, she should have stayed in the office she held. Which was a powerful office! A position of leadership. But her misguided intentions, on ambition got her to make a crucial mistake — that she was going to influence the Obama administration? The Obama administration ate her!

STEGER: You see a parallel case with John Quincy Adams. John Quincy Adams served the country in every respect — he never declined an offer to serve the country. But when it came down to serving Andrew Jackson, or even talking or collaborating with the Jackson regime, which was an outright treasonous regime, brought in by Wall Street to destroy the country, to run a color revolution of the Civil War, to mangle the nation, and John Quincy Adams said, "there's no way I'm working with this Satan! I mean I don't know what kind of progeny Hillary Clinton expected, but it's not very good!"

LAROUCHE: That's it, and that's the point. That's where we are. And the problem is, when people look for so-called "solutions," in compromises with these kinds of forces, Satan eats them up!

SARE: This came up in our New York chapter meeting after the Schiller conference, because people are grappling with the idea of "how do we organize this? how do we break this?" But one of the big challenges, is that people actually don't comprehend evil, in terms of what Zeus would be committed to. And Wagner understood it very well, in the Götterdämmerung, The Twilight of the Gods — the idea, they don't care if they themselves are destroyed, as long as the Promethean quality of man is destroyed. And that is something you can not compromise with. And that's the challenge: You can only eliminate it. There is no compromise to be had with that. There's not an "improvement" that you're going to get where the Queen is going to concede that perhaps her view on exterminating 6 billion people is incorrect, or something. And then people have to muster the passion to fight in that way, that it's a fight for principle, period. And people who will be rallied, who want to fight for that principle will join the fight, and otherwise, they're irrelevant, in a sense.

LAROUCHE: And if people in the United States don't thwart Obama, there will be a global thermonuclear war, in which the population of the United States, as well as other parts of the world, will be obliterated. And the time for that to happen, right now, is very, very near.

What happened this week, with the court in New York City, is a threat against, immediately, one nation, Argentina, but the entire continent of South America, is also sentient on this question. We're on the verge of the extinction, the self-willed extinction, of the United States itself: If the United States continues to condone Obama, the United States will have destroyed itself and its people, and their complicity and cowardice will be the agencies which have destroyed them. And we're very near to the juncture, of that point of development right now.

You can see it as the terror, organized by the British Empire, moves to take the southern part of Ukraine. That is the point of thermonuclear war. And you can't blame Putin, he's doing everything right. What you have to do, is get rid of Satan's wife, the British Empress, one of his wives.

OGDEN: That's an unholy matrimony.

LAROUCHE: Absolutely. [laughter]

CHRISTIE: Just to make a further point on this, the Satanic principle, that literally the Zeus figure was the Satan concept, and the fight between Zeus versus Prometheus, this has been somewhat of a constant ebb and flow. And really, even the formation of this nation was an outgrowth of the Renaissance, which was an obvious Promethean movement to escape the Satanic, Zeusian forces within Europe, the monarchies and so forth. And we're sort of had that ebb and flow, of back and forth, back and forth. But now, we're at a point where the world has come together as a global community in that sense, that there's no pockets of refuge or something like that, this is now, the pressure on humanity to develop and to go to a new phase, to, in effect, launch a worldwide Renaissance, I think the point here is that there's no other refuge: We have to win this thing from the top, and I think the British Empire knows that as well, which is why this thing could be pushed to the brink of thermonuclear war to maintain their system. And we just have to keep that at the forefront, that this a battle that has to be won for humanity as a whole.

OGDEN: Well, I know Kesha's going to be here for one more day: We're headed into D.C. for some more meetings this afternoon, and then she's going back to Texas. And I know there's the Texas State Democratic Convention — I don't know if you want to say anything regarding the plans?

ROGERS: Nope! [laughs]

OGDEN: No, keep it close to your chest!

ROGERS: Oh yeah. Get ready for trouble.

LAROUCHE: Let's just hope we make it national. I think she's going to hit the flank. You have to find out where the enemy's exposing his flank — then you go and kick it.

ROGERS: That's right!

OGDEN: In Texas, they have a very big flank.

ROGERS: You can't miss it!

OGDEN: Good, all right, unless there's anything more to add, I think that was a good conclusion for our discussion today. I want to thank everybody for joining us, and thank you very much, Lyn, for being on with us. And thank you Kesha and Diane for being here in the studio with me. That's it, and stay tuned.