LaRouche PAC Policy Committee, Monday, August 18, 2014, Transcript
August 19, 2014 • 6:47AM

Watch the full video presentation here, & listen to the mp3 here.

MATTHEW OGDEN: Good afternoon and welcome to our weekly discussion with the LaRouche PAC Policy Committee. Today's August 18th, 2014, and we're broadcasting over Google Hangouts On Air. We're joined over video today by Dave Christie who is joining us from Seattle, Washington; by Kesha Rogers who is joining us from down in Texas; we've got Michael Steger, joining us from San Francisco, California; and Rachel Brinkley. We are not joined today by Bill Roberts, because he is at the National Caucus of State Legislators convention. Here in the studio, as you can see, I'm joined by Diane Sare. So, Diane, I'll let you begin the discussion here.

DIANE SARE: Okay. Yesterday, we had a quite wide-ranging discussion with Mr. LaRouche and his wife Helga, who is just recently returned to Europe, and the picture is very clear, but it's a very big picture, and it's definitely a challenge I think for the American people who have been crushed under 13 years, since 9/11 of the Cheney/Bush administrations and now the Obama, maybe we should call it the Obama/Boehner administration; but what you have, led by the BRICS nations, led by China critically, is a total revolt against Zeus. China's commitment to a helium-3 program, a platform of fusion energy as a driver, and then you see these extraordinary developments coming from Argentina which has had its battles with the British Empire in the past, and they clearly have no question what they're up against. So not only did they stand up to the vulture funds and say no, they're now countersuing, in the U.S. courts, the President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner said as long as I'm President, they will never bring us to our knees. They are going forward very aggressively with their space program, with nuclear power, they seized the accounts of HSBC in Argentina, which is particularly rich, because HSBC was caught laundering $17 billion of drug money, and thanks to Eric Holder, no criminal prosecution was brought against any member of the bank! They were fined, I think, a billion dollars, and that was it. So, they have now had their accounts frozen in Argentina for tax evasion. So it's real warfare.

And what LaRouche said is that the British Empire cannot be defeated piecemeal, because other topics that were touched on, and I'm sure we'll discuss today, is this new potential pandemic of the Ebola virus, that's already taken close to 1,200 lives in Western Africa. The commitment to genocidal war, what's being done in Ukraine by these Nazi forces that the British Empire is supporting against the Russian population in Ukraine; what has happened to the Palestinian population in Gaza, you see some real atrocities. But we will not win this by fighting in each separate place. We will win this by delivering the decisive, killer blow to the British Empire, and that's the fight, and I think that's what Americans have to understand, is that we have to get our nation into historic place, leading the fight against that, which means emphatically the removal of Obama from the Presidency, but that seems to be only possible if we throw out John Boehner, his protector.

So that's where we are, and it's a phenomenal place.

OGDEN: And Mr. LaRouche called for the creation of a new coalition of nations to crush the British Empire out of existence, in one fell swoop. And you have now, a new system emerging. We've discussed this with the BRICS momentum and the dynamic that's being led by Russia, China, India, and now being joined by Egypt, very, very significantly. The new President of Egypt el-Sisi has now moved aggressively, to join the dynamic that Putin and others are leading; he had a two-day meeting with Vladimir Putin in Sochi, has announced the creation of a New Suez Canal project in Egypt, and is supporting openly the fight of Argentina against the vulture funds.

So, I think it's very, very incredible, the leadership that this movement is providing in terms of what Mr. LaRouche defined as "an inversion of values": Everything you thought was worth something is trash, is going to be thrown in the garbage pail, and everything else, which is real value, is going to brought in to replace that, and we know that Mr. LaRouche is at the front edge of even patriots inside the United States, who are now orienting towards that dynamic.

So, I think that's the groundwork for our discussion here today.

KESHA ROGERS: I'll just start by saying that, just taking up this question that you just brought up on the concept of value. It was interesting, my husband and I did an interview with an internet radio station out of El Paso area. A couple of young people in the kind of Libertarian leaning, but what came up is really looking at the most profound and powerful idea that's coming out of this BRICS alliance, and also, as you just mentioned, what the Egyptians are doing to identify and signify with this truly and uniquely American System of political economy, that has the emphasis on the value of society and human life, is around the conception that you have to actually be creating that which is better for future generations to come. And one of the things that came up in this discussion was, one, what we have done here in the United States to deny that future, in which we're seeing coming from the BRICS nations, and coming from nations who are looking to join with the BRICS nations such as Egypt, where you take the emphasis of what we used to represent with the space program. And one of the things that came up is, well, isn't it better now because of just the flaw that's coming from the government, to actually have the United States turn its whole space program over to the private sector? Or, isn't it better for the private sector to be involved in these entities? And if you really give a sense of, this is the whole problem in the thinking in the population is that everybody's thinking has been conditioned on a system of money, of monetary value, of the way that economy works is just the flowing of money through a system, versus what is the value of society in terms of real productivity?

And this is why, if you look at what they're doing with this New Suez Canal type system is exactly what we did with the Transcontinental Railway system, it's what Lincoln did with the greenback policy. You're taking internal investments and putting that toward long-term, 25 to 50 years down the line. And the big problem right now is that people don't really see a conception of value from the standpoint of, that the way they think about it as Mr. LaRouche has said, very emphatically, the way people think about monetary systems is being brought down and this is being extremely exemplified through what China's doing with the mining of helium-3 on the Moon. That, what we're doing right now, the fact that people say we can't solve these problems that are devastating society right now, the financial collapse, the economic collapse, the unemployment, the food crisis, the outbreak of diseases, is not true. Because the way you think about solving these problems is to have the conception and the forward-thinking idea that the Chinese do, that, one, we have to master and conquer the Solar System. We have to bring into our power, the power of the Sun, and how that is going to, if we can harness the power of fusion, that's going to completely transform the planet, and all of these small things that we think of single issues become one direct flank or target, which is that if we can actually master this power of the Moon, helium-3, and that the whole shift that's being made right now globally, is around a new conception of value thats not based on money, then I think the American people will really start to understand their real power.

DAVE CHRISTIE: Just to follow up on that, because when the BRICS formed the New Development Bank, which really is a direct echo of what Mr. LaRouche put on the table back in 1974-75 around the concept of the International Development Bank, and one of the first layers of the shrieks and the howls that came from the British financial oligarchy, was the recognition that this is probably the first time that something like this has happened since the Bretton Woods conference. And I was just reflecting on what the Bretton Woods system represented, at least in the intention of what Roosevelt intended and others, who saw this as a way to bring nations onto a level playing field so that they could develop in a post-colonial era.

Now, unfortunately Roosevelt died, and Truman and Churchill's designs proceeded, which was to reinstall the colonial system under the guise of globalization, so-called. But what dawned on me, is that after the fall of the Bretton Woods system, which had set a fixed-exchange rate, there was a peg between the currencies and that stability of currencies based on this fixed-exchange rate system allowed nations to take on debt for financing projects that were to improve their nation, without the ability for financial speculation to come and screw up their currency, as we saw time and time again, where nations would take on debt at one price, the currency speculators would come in after the fall of the Bretton Woods system, and really, you would create a kind of a debt slavery, where nations would end up paying loans over and over.

Now, coupled with that, after the breaking of the fixed-exchange rate and the gold-reserve system that was a part of the Bretton Woods system, the U.S. dollar became the foundation by which all oil transactions were denominated, and thus, the creation of the so-called petrodollar. And if you think about it, it's not so much that it's the petrodollar from the standpoint of how some refer to it, that these are all about wars about oil and so forth, or that the control of oil is some thing in and of itself, but rather, the British Empire's policy of divide and conquer, of pitting nations against each other, of preventing scientific and technological advancement, where if you look at the use of oil as the primary fuel source, that was really coupled with the environmentalist movement shutting down any sort of advanced scientific progress, but with this system of the fall of the Bretton Woods system, the implementation of the petrodollar, you created an system based on financial speculation because there was no longer the fixed exchange rate, and you created an integrated system of a control of resources, financial speculation, and the manipulation of nations around these matters of the debt slavery that we saw through the IMF, the control of the resources, and the control of financial speculation, which really gave rise to things like Saudi Arabia.

You know, the Al Yamamah deal was created because of the spot markets — the Al Yamamah deal was the Saudi oil for weapons deal [with Great Britain], where they created a giant slush fund to finance all sorts of terrorist activities, including probably 9/11. We'll figure that out when we get the release of the 28 pages [classified from the 9/11 Commission Report], but the point is, you couldn't create this kind of integrated web of terrorism, and drug-running, and financial speculation, without the fall of the Bretton Woods system and the new financial speculative system that came after that.

And so, here we are now, with the New Development Bank is coming into existence, but, with the creation of fusion energy and the helium-3 economy, now the ability for archaic forms of fossil fuels to dominate the planet and the amount of work and so forth that goes into that labor and physical work, I just think of all the semi-trucks just blowing through North Dakota with this fracking oil, and just the insanity of how much work is being tied up, how much labor is being tied up with this archaic system, versus, if you think of just three shovel loads of helium-3 coming from the surface of the Moon could power the entirety of humanity.

And if you think about it, we're now making the shift where, as a ratio of the power of the human mind relative to the physical labor that goes into gathering your energy supply, the ratio is almost completely inverted, versus the labor of the oil is very little in the way of human mind, although there may be some drilling techniques and chemical engineering and so forth, but how much work is associated, relative to what you see with a fusion economy which is where it's almost all about mind! And the actual organization of the power of labor is now directed into that, so the ratio has been inverted.

But, I just think that as a reflection of what these two systems now represent, I think that gets to what Lyn is calling on, that this is the end of the British Empire, and they know it. And I think that's why their desperation around the push towards war, as much as many of this is just empty bluffs. However, I will say this, we don't want to take the chance of an insane lunatic called Obama with his finger at the nuclear button. So I think our flank to get Boehner out, to clear the way for Obama's impeachment is very crucial. But that's the point, is that the British Empire is now over. This is a new system that represents something absolutely, fundamentally different.

SARE: I'll just say, on the helium-3 question, because LaRouche's scientific associates have been doing a number of classes over Google Hangouts for the organizers around the country, and this led to a really interesting discussion which is "what is this fusion platform?" Why is value transformed? And Ben Deniston brought up, just thinking about how did human beings live 500 years ago? Could someone from 500 years ago imagine, from everything that you do, you know, waking up in the morning, your house is either heated or cooled, you have an alarm clock, you know, it would have been almost unfathomable in a certain sense. And similarly, if we get to what Dave, you're beginning to get glimmers of, where energy, as was said by scientists who were working on this before, that energy would be too cheap to meter. It would be abundant, you could take for granted, in effect, that you had massive energy, at very high temperatures; and also this difference in the amount, because of the very small amounts of fuel needed for fusion, relative to combustion, then what's the value of, if it's 64,000 railroad cars of coal to 1 pickup truck full of helium-3, then what is the value of 50 tons of coal, all of a sudden? And you see that the real value is the question of the future. And that becomes the defining metric, is the question of the future, not a "thing," that we're holding in our hands right now.

OGDEN: Yeah, I was speaking to Ben Deniston earlier today, and he was emphasizing the nature of a science driver is that, you're attempting something that has never been done before. You're doing something that you don't know how to do, and we've had a lot of discussion — Nicholas of Cusa, for example, De Docta Ignorantia, the entire basis of modern science is the understanding that man can know the future, but also knowing what you do not know. And knowing what you have not experienced. So, it reminded me, actually, of St. Paul's letters, where he says the experience of mankind is that we "see through a glass darkly": So, as we're looking at a helium-3 future, as we're looking at a fusion platform for the human race, and bringing the Solar System under control, which we do not yet understand. Kepler's prescience, of what was the organizing principle of the universe, this has the quality of St. Paul state of mind, that we see the future through a glass, but we see it "darkly."

RACHEL BRINKLEY: Well, I think we need to encourage the U.S. Congress to open their eyes and start seeing it clearly, too, because, as Mr. LaRouche made the point yesterday, that anyone that does not act according to the reality right now that the British Empire is collapsing, there's a new system developing, but continues to go along with that empire, is driving the United States and the world toward war, that not acting on this reality is an action, and that action, given the obviousness of the collapse of the trans-Atlantic economy, which everyone can see, not doing something about that and leaving the United States and the world subject to this war drive, is in itself an action to cause the world towards that war, and Congress is responsible for that.

So we just have to make that point. The U.S. is essential in the world right now, and you also see this in the African around Ebola, that there are not the forces within Africa to deal with this outbreak, so it is up to the United States not to just say, "well, try to figure it out," but to take actions to prevent this spread of this and contain it.

ROGERS: Yeah, the other point on that, is that we live in a global or world system: You have to take responsibility for the world. There is no way that you're going to actually say, "oh that's over there and it's never going to actually get out." We already know that that's not the case. This is going back to the emphasis of what we've been saying is the intention of the British Empire, the Queen of England, to push the world to the threat of thermonuclear war and to actually depopulate the planet to less than 1 billion people. And these things are not isolated. They go hand in hand: There is a reason that you have this explosion of biological warfare, or military or thermonuclear warfare, that's very much a real threat to the existence of mankind. And people, especially the Congress members, who are sitting back in their districts, saying, "We'll just wait until September till it's time to get back and so something about these things," we have to be very clear that Congress has to get back to Washington, D.C. now. And first thing is to tell John Boehner, as Mr. LaRouche said, and which is absolutely the case, that he has to get the hell out! And that Obama has to be impeached now.

MICHAEL STEGER: I think it's worth emphasizing also — I mean, it's clear what was presented in the Friday webcast, but we have a number of statements have come out from people at the very highest levels of this international financial system, that this system is gone, it is dead. We see an absolute rejection of it, as Matt, you pointed out the Egypt relationship, how that's shifted drastically, the Argentina case is probably exemplary of the revolt against this system, but this system is about to blow. And what you're seeing, as a number of people inside the United States, at the highest levels of institutional responsibility, either in finance, the Presidency, or government generally, who are beginning to realize, clearly we can't do what we did in 2008. Many people already disagree with that policy, they've been in protest of it. But the question now isn't just a question of protesting at what's been a failed policy, a hyperinflationary policy, but now what will you do, how do you now change the entire system? And this question of value then becomes prominent and it is a prominent discussion right now within the institutions of this country, and the American citizens who want to see a change, have to rise to this level of discussion. It can't be a question of disliking Obama; Obama's trash, so is Boehner, so is this whole party system. You've got to get an orientation to a new value system.

And I think the most interesting thing, and what came out from Lyn's comments in the Friday webcast, and this is what people just underestimate, and we probably can't say enough times, what's going to make this new financial system function, is not just a commitment to do something good. We're going to actually need a revolution in scientific thought; we're going to need a revolution in how we think and conceive of the human species. And what Kepler did, coming off of what Brunelleschi and Cusa did in the Renaissance was critical. And we've had similar indications, or people who have catapulted forward, Bernhard Riemann, the German scientist, set a clear foundation for what Einstein and Planck and even Vernadsky have done. And what Lyn has done really indicates the capability for that revolution and the platform for it, if not the revolution itself.

And I think that has to be really understood: We have to have a dedication not only towards a new financial system, one intending to do good, but we actually need a commitment towards a revolution in scientific thought, even the ability to make fusion work. As Jason [Ross, of the LPAC Science Team] said, it's not an engineering question. It's an engineering facet, but the real question is a revolution in how we think about the physical universe, in the very large and also in the very small. And that's a critical factor that's going to drive the success of the human species.

It's not just a nice facet, it's actually a critical factor. We as a species have to dedicate ourselves to a revolution in scientific thought. What Einstein achieved, or indicated with his progress, that kind of fundamental shift has to occur. And Lyn has been emphasizing this since, if not the 1950s, at least the 1960s, this really is the course for survival. And it should really excite a lot of the best minds in our population, in our nation, today, to drop this pragmatic crap! Drop the compromises! Drop the impotent protests! Drop the cynicism and complaints about Congress, or about Boehner or Pelosi, and actually commit yourself to the new domain, a new system, and commit yourself to investing into a scientific and revolutionary kind of thinking, a shift in how we think of the human species. And that's just critical, it's irreplaceable.

SARE: The other aspect of this is this question of credit, because I was speaking with someone earlier today, who said, "well, Egypt, of course they're getting this money from the New Development Bank," and I said, "no!" The first phase of the Suez Canal is done very much like what Alexander Hamilton did when he was selling subscriptions to the debt of the United States, that the Egyptian population can invest in the canal, and they're going to get a 12% rate of return, if they invest in Egyptian pounds, and if they invest in U.S. dollars, they get a 3% rate of return — which I thought was a nice touch! But at any rate, so you can see, what's the mean per-capita income of someone in Egypt? Compared to the United States? I'm sure that the per-capita income average in the United States, as poor as we are right now, is still even a few times higher, maybe an order of magnitude higher, than the average per-capita income of an Egyptian. But, nonetheless, because of an understanding of value being in the future, in credit and not in the money per se, then they are able to allow their population to participate in creating the credit for launching this.

Which also indicates that this idea, which people are brainwashed in, that someone always has to be poor, that there's a certain amount of money, certain amount of resources, and if we take X amount, there's only Y amount left, and therefore it's always a fixed system, which completely flies in the face of nature, of natural law, and you see that, I think one of the things that's the most exciting about Egypt, Argentina, these other nations, this is not millions of people in the street, just saying, "we don't like a dictatorship." This is a revolution which is guided by insight, and really guided by the work that Lyndon LaRouche and this association has done over the last 40 years, so it is not an accident.

OGDEN: Yeah, that's crucial. This really is the long arm of history through ideas asserting itself. El-Sisi putting himself in the tradition of Nasser — I mean, Nasser was one of the founders of the Non-Aligned Movement. Look at Mr. LaRouche's role with the Non-Aligned Movement, look at the proposal for an International Development Bank in '75, and then the Non-Aligned Movement adopting this idea for a debt moratorium, a "debt bomb," at the Sri Lanka Summit in '76. Look at how, the factor from the leadership that Mr. LaRouche provided on SDI, the Strategic Defense Initiative, as a scientific revolution, as Michael is saying, and this being what is guiding the entire fusion, China platform, the initiative that's coming out of China now. The idea that you need a fundamental, scientific revolution — throw Isaac Newton out the window! Throw all the Bertrand Russell, David Hilbert, the dark age of the 1900s, throw this out the window! This is what Mr. LaRouche has been leading, and it's always been part and parcel of this new world system, and the inversion of the idea of the real definition of value.

So, absolutely, I mean, I think Egypt is a perfect example, of the leadership of insight, as you called it, Diane, and this being the basis for what a real revolution means.

SARE: Just on that, on the SDI question, because it was raised in the National Executive Committee discussion that the SDI was launched, not under Reagan, but under Carter.

OGDEN: Right, by LaRouche!

SARE: Yes, by LaRouche. So you couldn't say that we had a great, Promethean genius in the White House who was going to take the lead. It was very clear that Carter, under the influence then of Zbigniew Brzezinski, was putting us in grave danger of a nuclear/thermonuclear war. But LaRouche knew that this was necessary, to end Kissinger's Mutual and Assured Destruction, and as exactly that science driver for the economy. And, when the AIDS virus came to be known, then it was a question of also harnessing the scientific breakthroughs associated with this, associated with questions of tuning, which are involved in lasers, and which are involved in living frequencies, to see that you could actually cure this disease, that we could find cures for diseases hitherto unknown or unimagined.

And, of course, we got the SDI. LaRouche led that, we got it done, and many people today are expressing the same hope and intent. OK, so at the moment, we have a lunatic puppet of the British Empire as President, we have a Speaker of the U.S. Congress who is serving as a figleaf for the President, but! there is also a tradition in the United States that will resonate with this, which can sweep this aside. And that this policy could be adopted as official U.S. policy, and that's something that we really have to do.

STEGER: You know, it's fun, too. When Lyn was working with some of the scientists who were responsible for some of the research going into SDI, a question came up: Well, how is it possible that our Solar System was capable of producing the elements heavier than iron, including the transuranic, which really was the foundation for, the ability of our Solar System to create those, gave us the ability first to have the platform of nuclear technology, of nuclear power. But how was it possible? Because under the current theories at the time, it seemed infeasible that you could have fusion processes taking place within the formation of our Solar System capable of creating these heavier elements.

And what Mr. LaRouche proposed was, well, from his perspective, and his thinking, and his scientific thinking, which does not include Isaac Newton, and definitely doesn't include Bertrand Russell, was, you have a polarized fusion. You have a characteristic of organization of the elements, of the plasma forming our Solar System, at the very smallest levels, even at a quantum level of organization, capable of generating a process which gives us the full capability, the full value of our Solar System.

And what's remarkable is that that same kind of conception, and the thoughts provoked by understanding the creation of our Solar System, or the creation of our galaxy, and beginning to actually provoke young people into thinking these questions, pertain directly to the ability for us to make the breakthrough on fusion processes and mastering that on the planet today. And making that feasible for human energy and human development.

But the ideas of scientific questions, of investigating our universe, are directly related. It's not some "well, and then you get a mathematical formula and maybe that applies some day." It's an actual pursuit of how the physical universe is in a process of creation which then gives mankind an ability to advance its own creation and participate in that process in the universe. That is really what science — we define science. Lyn's been clear on this: We define science, the human species. It's not just some ethereal knowledge, it's not just a lattice system of information. It is the revolutions of human scientific thought. And it's just kind of a great example of taking something like the SDI, which was a defense program, so-called quote/unquote "a defense program," and really you see the foundations for really asking the big questions, getting scientists engaged in the big questions, that adds value to the society far greater, than almost anything else we have: provoke the best minds to ask the biggest questions.

ROGERS: Yeah, I just wanted to go back and emphasize just what you said, Michael, earlier, we are in dire need for a revolution in science, and that is really what — I think what I really encourage the listening audience and everyone you come in contact with, that the population that's participating with us, comes in contact with, get your friends and family together and study the material that's coming out from the LaRouche PAC "Basement" Team, the Science Team, the various reports that they have written on the helium-3 economy, and also you can find that on the front page of our website. I think getting people together, holding house meetings, actually joining us out in the streets and challenging the population with these higher conceptions, these higher ideas, is really what the population needs to participate in. And it's not just enough to despise the President or want him out, you have to know what you're going to replace this existing system with. And that's been very well defined by what we're seeing coming out of these BRICS nations, as an exemplary conception of what the real American System, what the United States used to actually represent, what we did embody as a nation, and we have to get back to that principle. So, we've got a lot of work to do in that matter.

CHRISTIE: Because I think that's the key, is that identity of the United States of a citizen, as Kesha's getting at, is a scientist-statesman. We were founded by Ben Franklin is the crucial example. And I think that's always the better side of the relationships that we have had with other nations. Perhaps Russia and China may be the most crucial examples of that, and it's also the two nations where people have the most difficulty, you bring up the idea that we should work with Russia and China, and people go into epileptic seizures about it, because they've been brainwashed in the view that somehow the Soviet system represented Russia, or that the Maoist system was somehow China. When in reality, both those systems were imposed by Bertrand Russell, or the British imperial game of creating the concept of the "noble peasant." And you look at all the leadership of these various movements that we saw through Asia, and where were they trained? Where did their philosophy come from? From British or the imperial schools — Pol Pot trained at the Sorbonne. So that idea.

And you go back and you look at other nations — I was struck by the realization that in addition to Vernadsky, who obviously was an extremely important global figure in science, but particularly for Russia, he was virtually the father of the Russian nuclear program. But was absolutely integrated into politics. He was a scientists-statesman. Mendeleyev, similarly, in addition to creating the periodic table of elements, and fighting for the Trans-Siberian Railroad, and the development of Russia, was also involved in the political fights as well.

So, I think that tradition, this is the tradition that the United States was founded on. And I have more to say on that, but I think that what we need to get the American population to recognize is that's their heritage, too. And that's going to be the foundation of the ability to cooperate with other nations, is around this scientific advancement. That's what Mr. LaRouche has gained the respect of nations around the world, is his commitment to that. So, I'll just leave it at that, but I think that's extremely crucial to recognize.

OGDEN: You know, Mr. LaRouche was saying yesterday, just look at the power of the forces of action that are now in motion. Look at China, and the power that they're exhibiting intellectually; look at Russia; look at the nations of South America, who are now aligned behind this fight in Argentina. Look at India, the second largest country in the world, behind China. Now, look at Egypt! I mean, this revolution is happening now, and these are our collaborators, these are our friends, these are partners. And I thought it was just — Mr. LaRouche said yesterday, he said: "We have a mighty army of people, now in place, who are ready to move, to crush this British system, and to replace it with an entirely new system. And the only thing we have to say is, 'Do it! Just do it!'"

SARE: Along those lines, I just wanted to — because, it really is funny, and I actually think the way Obama is going to end up being ousted, is that the American people get a whiff of this. Because obviously, the reason why the BRICS is blacked out of the U.S. media, and the helium-3 fusion plan of China is blacked out of the U.S. media, is they don't want people to know that Obama has no power. I mean, think about it, everyone would have been sure, the conventional wisdom is that if the vulture funds say that Argentina must pay, and it goes to the U.S. Supreme Court and the court says, "You must pay" that Argentina is going to be in terrible trouble, if they try to defy this! But, Argentina said, "No!" And the next thing you know, 133 nations are signing a public declaration saying "we are with you on this." And then the BRICS summit occurs.

Similarly, John Kerry goes to India and trying to bludgeon them into going with the World Trade Organization privatizing their food, starving their population, and India says, forget it! Go screw yourself, we're not doing this. And there's discussion whether this could bring the World Trade Organization to its knees.

And then you have China with the ASEAN meeting, where John Kerry is running around trying to get the Pacific Asia nations turned against China, so he shows up late to a meeting with the Chinese Foreign Minister, and atypically and undiplomatically, the Chinese Foreign Minister says, "Hey! You're late! You're late."

So, what Americans have to see, is this thing that they're all afraid of, which is the power of empire behind Obama, which was behind Cheney and Bush, which is what Boehner sucks on to feed himself, is over. It's over: It doesn't have any power.

OGDEN: The same thing happened with el-Sisi: He didn't come to this Africa summit to meet with Obama in Washington. He went to Sochi instead, to meet with Putin. Same thing.

SARE: Right, exactly. So when Americans get that, they don't have to be scared of this guy, they don't have to kiss the same old butt they always thought they were kissing. This guy could be out.

ROGERS: Kiss no butt. [laughter]

SARE: That's right!

CHRISTIE: Just to follow up on that, 'cause this is the same thing as well, people think they have to kiss Wall Street's ass. Well, Wall Street doesn't have it. And what Lyn had reported on the Friday webcast, of just the meetings that his top associate Jeff Steinberg is having around the country, or really around the world, that more and more, people recognize, this derivatives bubble is about the blow! And it's going to sink the whole system. So what people think they have as values, it doesn't exist, so why do you feel oppressed, or that you have to clutch onto what doesn't exist? John Hoefle, one of the EIR has often used the idea of the Malaysian monkey trap, which is reaches in to grab the nut, but when he pulls his hand out, he can't get the nut out, and ends up getting trapped, instead of just letting it go. And that's sort of what it is for the American people right now: Just let it go, it doesn't exist. There's a new system being organized, and we just have to work with it.

OGDEN: Well, I'm going to bring a conclusion to our show today. I think, to quote Kesha Rogers, "Kiss no butt" is a good place to end! And I thank you for joining us today, and please stay tuned to