MATTHEW OGDEN: Good afternoon, it's September 8, 2014. My name is Matthew Ogden and you're joining us for our weekly discussion with the LaRouche PAC Policy Committee. We're broadcasting as usual over Google Hangouts On Air, and I'm going to introduce our Policy Committee who are joining us over video: Starting, with Bill Roberts, who's joining us from Detroit, Michigan; Dave Christie, who's joining us from Seattle, Washington; Kesha Rogers, joining us from Houston, Texas; Michael Steger, joining us from San Francisco, California; and Rachel Brinkley, joining us from Boston, Massachusetts.
Here in the studio, I'm joined by Diane Sare, and Lyndon LaRouche. And I think in the very beginning of the show, today, we would all like to wish you, Lyn, a very happy birthday.
LYNDON LAROUCHE: Well, I've had a birthday or two before. It's not really a big event for me. The issue is the event for you, that's what's important, right? Because after all, considering my age, what's important is what mileage you can get out of me, and I think that's one of the subjects we want to pay attention to right now.
The fact is, we are in a point where, in my own destiny, I find myself in a point where the situation of the United States in terms of the Southern United States west of the Mississippi is presently impossible; it is fatal and impossible. This would mean only a revolutionary change in the organization of the Western states. Of course, once you get to the middle of the states and the Western states, you still have something valuable, as two of our members here in particular can report for us. But! The point is, the situation of the Southern states of the United States, Western Southern states, is presently, under present conditions, a virtually hopeless condition. And there is nothing in sight under the present Presidency, and I qualify, under the present Presidency, there is no hope for the United States in that region. There's nothing there.
We are going to have to create that option, which means we're going to have to violate everything that this President and his like represent. The only way you're going to save the Southern states of the United States, is by dumping Obama. If you don't do that, people are going to start dying massively in those states. That's the situation.
So therefore, if you want, you have a choice, you can either kill the citizens of the Southern states in that area, or you can eliminate Obama from the Presidency, that's your choice. If we organize on that basis, we can solve the problem, and other members of the staff of this crazy Presidency are also useless crap. They're absolutely useless. And there's no hope for mankind. Some of the people there just absolutely hopeless people: They're big mouths, but they have nothing inside them of any competence. And that's the key issue here.
But now, on the other hand, we have in the mid-area of the Western states, you have some hope of that part of the states. That's all you've got. You've got in the Northern states of the Western states, you have a slightly better chance, and you can enhance it.
But the problem is, the United States is in very serious danger under present conditions. We have to get rid of the kinds of people who are, important, shall we say, around New York City. We should actually throw them away. And the further we can throw them, the better. [laughter] Because we know about a certain Senator in that region; he should be thrown away, it's absolutely essential!
Now, but we do have options. The options are not options of the United States as such, as such; what we're running into with Helga's operation as such, in particular, she has been actually an active factor in terms of the creation of a new option for humanity in terms of the Eurasian section. So therefore, what she was doing, and has been doing right now is actually creating a new option for humanity. And this goes together with what's happening in other parts of the area.
So we have great options, but we have to choose them. We have to pick them out and choose them. And say, look, first of all, get rid of the British system. Just take the Queen and throw her out of the window, or throw her someplace, get rid of her!
OGDEN: The defenestration of London.
LAROUCHE: In a sense. I think, maybe we have some of my Scottish relatives might be able to provide some help on this problem. I do have Scottish relatives, so I would probably look in their direction with a certain amount of suspicion, and say: "Are you one of the good ones, the good guys?" And, if they don't lift their skirts, why, maybe I can trust them. [laughter]
So that's the situation we have. But the point is, we're going into a new condition of mankind, at the best. We're already moving across the Pacific, we're moving essentially from China and China is the center of the organization of the future of humanity right now. It's not an isolated case. It's not an also-ran. It is a part of a system of nations which is going to dominate this planet henceforth, if we do our job. In other words, we are going to create a new way of thinking, about mankind on the Solar System. We are also going to apply that to going beyond the Solar System as such, going into the higher orders of powers, of economic powers. And that's what's going to happen.
We have to do that. Because right now, under the policies now, there is no chance, as of now, there is no immediate chance, for the people in the Southern part of the states of the United States. We're going to have to create the condition which deals with that. I means we're going to have move people out of parts of that region, we're going to have to move them to safety, to economic safety and so forth. And we have to start doing that.
Now, in this connection, I place great emphasis on the role of our former President. He is actually essential in order to pulling this thing off. Without his role, and despite his wife's different opinion, without his role there is almost no chance for this region of the United States — none! I don't care what the terms are, I don't care what the beg is, I don't care what the whining is, it ain't going to work! There's no way we can save the Southern states of the United States under present conditions. We have to create the conditions which can do that. And people have to be told that, because it's going to make some people very unhappy, because they don't want to do the things that can be done, to save those parts of the United States. And in short, that's a short presentation of where I'm going.
OGDEN: Now, as you mentioned, yesterday, you issued a very clear, clarion call for Bill Clinton to involved himself in this in his capacity as the former President, who's in a position to pull together the United States into a coherent organization. And if we don't, as you said, if we don't supplant what Obama's agenda is now, with what could be a collaboration between these nations of Eurasia, led by China with a completely reorganized United States, we're not going to survive as a nation.
LAROUCHE: Well, we can do that; we can do that. What we're doing now, already, in this term will work, can be made to work. But we have to do, which means that you really have to take Boehner and other people, and throw them out of them system!
Dump these creeps, throw them out of the system, we don't want them any more! Get rid of them!
And now, Bill Clinton is not necessarily going to be the great leader of the United States, but he is a leader in the sense that he's a contributor, to the creation of a new effort, to save the United States and to develop the world in general. And I'm not boosting him and proposing that he's going to be the next President, or anything like that. That's not my point. My point is, he can help, to open the gates for mobilizing the citizens of the United States to save their own butt! And that's what's necessary.
DIANE SARE: I think that's really important, and it's also very important that this is not in the context of an election. Because you have so many silly people, saying, "we hate Obama, but if we can just get Republican majority in the Senate..." And then you say, "well, exactly what has the Republican Party done for you?" "Well, nothing..."
"Okay! So why is that your idea of a ...?" I mean, I wasn't alive when people thought the Earth was flat, or that the Earth was the center of the Solar System, but somehow the American people has allowed themselves to have a completely insane view of the world and our relationship to it.
LAROUCHE: I know, but that kind of opinion, is idiocy, it's utter incompetence! And it will lead to the effects of incompetence. I mean, take New Jersey, for example: New Jersey is a disaster area! You just have to take one guy, one Senator, and you've got a disaster area which you'll never cure at all, if you continue to have him! Throw this guy out! Take him to the edge of something or other, and throw him in the ocean. Get rid of him!
I mean, these are the realities that we have to deal with, and we have to have realities which take care of how do we feed people? How do we meet the standards required, in order to increase the productive powers of labor? How do we create a situation where we have children who are going to grow up and become successful and develop, and be proud of themselves and so forth? And you know, I'm not pushing Bill as running for President or anything of that sort. I'm simply saying: Here's a guy, who's one of the best Presidents we ever had, that's it! I mean, he's one of the best Presidents we ever had, and therefore, if he can make a contribution by being a leader, in the organization of trying to bring the United States into a better perspective on its own account, then that's what we want to do.
And I know Bill; I've had a close a relationship with him of some kind, beyond, and he will do the job. I know he will do the job; he will have problems of interference with his ability to do the job, including from other people who are close to him, otherwise, but he actually is a responsible person, and he's one of the few people on the planet that I would personally trust, to help deal with the challenge of the planet. And that I would say, absolutely clear, no question.
And whatever his wife thinks and so forth, it's no difference. Essentially, she probably is essentially deeply, somehow tied to what he represents, or was that, or got confused or something. But Bill is a guy who can carry the ball, if he wants to, and he gets the right kind of help. You don't need to have him run as the President of the United States, or some foolish thing like that. You have to organization a United States, so it's going to have a Presidency, which is crafted in such a way that we do have a Presidency. Which means we're going to solve the problem, which we can not now solve in the Southern states, the Western Southern states of the United States.
We have condemned, the majority of the people of the Western states of the United States have already been condemned to death beforehand! And that's a fact! And it's time that people awakened to that reality. That's one of my biggest gripes on this thing.
DAVE CHRISTIE: Yeah, Lyn, I know you've mentioned this in the past, that the only way to deal with the crisis in these Southern states is to take the lead that China is providing. And in a number of ways, their approach to the large-scale power systems, obviously with the helium-3 perspective, they also have dealt with the deserts in their country, and have a certain insight into how to deal with that. And it's just another case where, what we're seeing unfolding with this collaboration amongst nations, that what you see with the BRICS process, what Helga is leading with China and obviously what you've put forward as the foundation for this, you see that this is the kind of collaboration that's needed. And if you look at the landscape of U.S. political leaders or anybody of significance that could actually help bring the United States into this process, I mean, forget about it, there's no options. I mean, what're you going to do, bring Bush back? [laughter] If he's not on the wagon, you know he's too busy doing paintings of dogs and so forth. But you just kind of look at the landscape, and you realize there's no one else but Bill Clinton. And from his work with what he proposed around the "new financial architecture," that's actually what we're seeing unfolding with the BRICS process right now!
LAROUCHE: One correction on this thing: The idea that there is a way in which we can artificially create a system of economy, in the Solar System, is false. There is no one who is presently capable predefining what the standard is for this purpose. Now, this was done during the period of the Renaissance, and there has been no change, since the Renaissance in producing that effect. That effect is the effect which I've been preaching, for a long time over years, over decades. But what people usually say, is they say that they know how they can use the powers, of this power. It's wrong, it can not do that! They don't know what they're doing! So the people who say they have a "practical" approach to this problem are wrong! They're incompetent.
What we need to do, which is what you're seeing in China, especially in the China help, that China is moving in a direction where it will become capable, of managing the process which I refer to. It has not yet happened! And no one has yet produced the proof that it could happen. I know what the proof is. That's my specialty, in this area. But when people start to say, "I know how we can do this, or do that, about this matter, it's nonsense. They're gambling, they're fooling themselves.
This is something which is much more serious than anything that a smart guy, so-called, would do.
RACHEL BRINKLEY: Well, that's very important, absolutely. Just on this question, also, our artificially producing a false system, that is also, as Dave brought up, Clinton pointed out in a recent address, that it's not just that the era of "shareholder value" was ended. We also had the Presidency, the functioning Presidency ended, ironically, under Bill Clinton as well. He probably knows a few things about that, about a certain young lady, that was planted in the basement of the White House to finish off the Presidency.
But this is really what's being demonstrated right now, is that this false system of Wall Street, "shareholder value," really was a creation of this British system to control the world's population. And now there's a certain fear that's been broken, there's a certain victory that's in process right now, of this idea of being broken. And what you see, for example, with the Suez canal is they're not just building the canal, they're building a 200- mile-wide economic corridor. You know, the [China] "One Belt, One Road" policy is for a thorough development of transport corridors, with integrated systems alongside rail, industrial development, mining, etc. It's the whole gamut. And also with the canal in Nicaragua, the same thing.
But this is what you've been discussing in terms of physical economy, this is the only way to really produce value is to fully develop these productive powers. And the old system is dead and obsolete.
LAROUCHE: Well, one thing about that whole system is, yes, mankind has been able to do that, that is, to create a system which actually develops a power beyond anything mankind has known as such beforehand. This happened in that particular case as such. But! We have very stiff limitations on how well we understand that, and therefore, what we're involved in, if we're serious, we're very serious about trying to come to an understanding, as China is doing with its space program, we're trying to do the same thing that China's trying to do with its space program, is to find ways of testing and exploring these opportunities which are presented to us within the Solar System.
We don't have the system now, we don't have control of this thing! Nobody has a miracle solution! But we have an understanding of what our faults are, what our limitations are, or what direction we go in. And what you're seeing in China, in the development of the space program in China, you are seeing this kind of accomplishment, leaking in and proceeding outward. And what we have to do, is realize, not that we can grab something from China, but to understand that we can have an experimental experience which opens the gates to us, to begin to understand what those forces are that we don't yet know how to deal with.
CHRISTIE: I just have a question, Lyn. You had brought up a while back, the going beyond hydrogen and actually defining a new conception around the periodic table of elements. Does this get at — your call for that then, is that related to what this...?
LAROUCHE: It is related, precisely related. It's an aspect of the system, of the whole system, which is very special. And we rely up on that very special aspect of the system in order to open the gates to us, for access to solutions to things that we don't yet well understand.
SARE: On this China question, I think one very important aspect is the commitment there to Classical music, that we've heard of how many millions of violinists, and piano students, and — I was thinking, I just have been re-reading some of Furtwängler's writings on what's happening to music as he's writing, where he talks about people becoming very technical, like Liszt —
LAROUCHE: [laughs] Ohh-ho-ho!
SARE: I mean, totally technical quote/unquote "proficient," but the music dies, because the idea, which he calls "spiritual, but it's not exactly...
LAROUCHE: It may have died because the audience left the hall...
SARE: Yes! And that he also addresses because the audience loses their power of judgment. Although it's interesting, he talks about why do people love the Beethoven symphonies, so there's something enduring that people do know, but they've come to worship the wrong....
LAROUCHE: No, they assume something. They draw a conclusion about something, they have no comprehension of what the whole thing is about in the first place. They don't know how to tune an instrument, and they're going around with this sort of thing. And you have a limited number of people in the whole history of music who really had the power to understand what the insight is, of Classical musical composition — and I do mean Classical composition. Without it, you don't have music, you have noise. And so therefore, it's important that we understand that distinction and it's important that people go through the experience of realizing that there is such a thing.
I mean, when you take a great performer, like the ones I know of, a great performer and you know that they are able to do something with the instrument or instruments, which nobody else has ever done before, has ever been able to do before! And therefore, it's the fact that we have people who are great musicians, or who become great musicians, who actually understand these things, or have a grasp on them, like Furtwängler. Furtwängler is the model. Furtwängler is the unimpeachable model of, really, what composition is.
And that's the point. People tend to fake, they tend to say, "this is the great thing," well, they don't know what the "great thing" is. They just didn't know what it was in the first place, and they still don't know!
KESHA ROGERS: I think that's an excellent expression on this idea of Classical music, to what is a real expression of when our American System has actually functioned in the way that it was intended and designed to function, and what you were just discussing about making discoveries and making breakthroughs that mankind has already done that have never been made before, look at the space program in the United States, a prime example of some breakthroughs and discoveries. Or, in the physical economic realm, we think about what was accomplished through the TVA program under Franklin Roosevelt: I mean, he was solving things such as the food crisis, the energy crisis, he was transforming society, you were actually solving malaria through various projects and being able to deal with mosquitoes and malaria. I mean, these things seem like very small in comparison, but that completely transformed mankind, transformed the population, because those things hadn't been discovered yet. You were having people dying, you were having the conditions where people could read, and eat, and have productive standards of living.
But that was also a transformative point for the rest of the world. And I looked at how we did something like that, to completely transform the conditions in the United States, and that wasn't just for the Southern states, and Tennessee and Alabama and so forth, but it transformed the entire United States. That actually transformed China.
And also, what we see right now, in terms of the situation in Egypt, in which you have a nation that was completely war-driven, downtrodden, that has taken on this uniquely American System, and I can say that it's probably through the inspiration of what the Chinese have done, to give these other nations like Egypt under the encouragement or the power to actually break free of this imperial policy.
But it's really fascinating to look at, why is it, if Egypt can make this breakthrough, if China can make this breakthrough, in transforming the conditions of their nation, and giving their young people a future and a mission, and knowing that they have to do things such as you said, they have to move their population out, they have to start over, they have to do all of these things, then why would the Western states have a problem in not being able to do that? That that's what we have to do?
LAROUCHE: It's very simple: You've done this many times. You started in a sense, from scratch in particular applications of this work, in building up a chorus line, shall we say, for our politics, our political system. You did it! And it was something which you created, out of your own passion and your close associates' that you actually developed that. The function of the individual in society is to find for themselves a discovery, which is of that nature. And once they've discovered something, or taken the beginning of a discovery, as you have done in a number occasions that I can identify precisely, that's how we make progress.
And I was very upset by the fact that you had been ill, because I know this kind of illness gets in the way, of doing what you really want to do. And I'm just praying that you're going to do that, the way you want to do it, quick! [laughs]
ROGERS: I think I'm back!
OGDEN: You know, I've been thinking about what you've said about, this is a completely unprecedented situation. Nobody has ever experienced anything, like what is happening now, and what Helga was in the middle of in China and so forth, and it occurs to me that what China is doing, is bringing an end to the legacy of Bertrand Russell. The intellectual slavery of the death of creativity: China's saying we're going to do something that mankind has never done before! And so, Bertrand Russell said, "well, we know everything already," and the minute you say you already know everything, creativity has died. [LaRouche laughs]
And, it also gets at what you've been saying about a new conception of government, that government only derives its legitimacy to the extent that it's a servant to the creativity of mankind.
LAROUCHE: From my experience, with my wife, and her current associates, this is the way things really work.
OGDEN: Right, yes!
LAROUCHE: And she has been doing creative things that she never did before, never thought of doing before in that form. She's talked with people who are leaders, prominent leaders of the whole Chinese community! China has made great leaps, in progress, during this period. And some of her elder friends, of my age-group generally also, we have done that kind of work. I didn't do this work, they did it. But what I've recognized in what they've done is exactly that. It's the same thing in the development of this nearby space operations.
So we are creative people. We are not manufacturers, we are creators. And if you're not a creator, you're only a manufacturer.
OGDEN: And I think, a political revolution goes hand in hand with a scientific revolution, and you can't separate the two.
LAROUCHE: Absolutely! Absolutely! There's total agreement, that's absolutely true.
BILL ROBERTS: You know, thinking about these two aspects about what the Chinese are doing right now, with the adoption of the World Land-Bridge, Helga's policy, you have this idea of freeing the landlocked countries from backwardness. You know, the original idea of the land-bridge is you're going to basically take this conception of giving the internal areas of the continents the means to freeing themselves from the stagnation of being a landlocked country, in the same way that the United States had to do this to develop the internal areas and bring culture into these internal areas.
And then, the irony right now, is we're losing that with the drought situation here in the United States, to have these internal areas functioning. So you know, China — and then, the other side of it, is that the role that that has played in taking these sort of breeding grounds for terrorism — you know, consciously China has dealt with that question, in terms of how development through these areas we're going to take away the breeding grounds for terrorism, for the British Empire. So they're dealing with that aspect.
But then, with this question of space, and consciously going for an industrial colonial on the Moon, you take Krafft Ehricke's idea that this is, really, in the same way that the Abraham Lincoln policy of developing the internal areas of countries represented a certain type of evolutionary leap that we had bring all of mankind into, the question of the Moon as becoming sort of the staging ground for man going out and mastering and controlling the Solar System, that this is the next evolutionary step, this is the future, not because we know how to use the things that are on the Moon, to bring them back here per se, but because it actually forces mankind to finally completely operate outside of, essentially a culture, which is susceptible to imperialism and so forth, but a culture which has to function without the aid of the reliability of sense-perception and the way that we've come to depend upon that in a certain sense as long as we're stuck here on Earth.
So you do have this dual aspect, I think ...
LAROUCHE: Actually, what you — is the fact that if you really understand the noëtic process, the creative process, as it affects nearby space for example. Once you have that, that's not a thing, that's an inherent characteristic of the Moon system, of the Moon system. We don't know exactly what the Moon really means, as a system; we have very strong intimations of what it might mean. But we don't have some special system like that, but which is often taught in schools, it's not true. What we have is the ability of the human mind — not the human brain, the human mind — the human mind to discover a principle, which does not exist outside the human mind's bounds. And that's what you really should be aiming for. Don't aim for success. Aim for victory.
OGDEN: Michael if you're speaking we can't hear you. We're having an audio glitch with Michael's connection.... Okay, he's going to reconnect. ... No we still can't hear you — I apologize.
ROGERS: Let me ask a question, while Michael's — there was a discussion, just going back to the Clinton initiative, there was just a discussion with members in the organization who have been around for a while and who were here with you Lyn, when you were pushing for the Reagan initiative around the SDI, and working with Reagan. And that you had given a clarion call to Reagan that he had to push forth the SDI in 30 days. And we know that with all of the opposition coming from people in the Reagan Administration, he, despite Kissinger and Bush, Sr. and others, understood that the nation was in a dire place. And I don't know the full extent to what happened, but that he did take up that.
And the interesting thing that we were discussing is, now, given the situation that we're in right now, and the importance of Clinton taking up this clarion call that you're putting out, I think looking back on that representation, and what you're influence was on Reagan and also on Clinton in the past when he was President, is very crucial to this initiative. And maybe you can shed some light on that.
LAROUCHE: Well, rather simply, the discovery that I made and was made in this period, was entirely by me. And that was how I made the discovery, was the fact that I knew I had a discovery at hand. And I responded to this, and I responded to this to collaborators, who are also scientists of the same degree that I'm a scientist, and we did that. And we had the President of the United States became our advocate, in playing this game of what we played, and we created, really, a great opportunity for the American people.
But then, what happened is the interference coming from the wrong side of the Republican Party, actually destroyed the efficiency of the kind of system we created. I did build a system, which worked as a space system. It was only a primitive system relative to my skills, but it worked. And I did this with the Russians, work among the Russians, was the same kind of thing. These were things that I had original insight into, and we did them. And there were many other people who were doing the same kind of thing, or colleagues who were doing the same kind of thing, and we would share these kinds of things, and we would come to conclusions which were based on sharing these experiences of discovery! A lot of people didn't discover, a lot of people made stabs at it, it didn't mean much of anything.
But what you always want to do, whatever you're doing, you want to not just make a stab at something. What you want to do is find out, how inside you, you can discover, something that is going to be important to mankind. And it's that passion which develops in that way, which is the most important part of the life of mankind. Because, can you create a discovery which solves the problem? I've had a few successes, and a lot of problems, in dealing with it. And the problem is, we don't, today, we have very poor performance; not that people are ignorant, but they don't want to expose themselves to criticism.
OGDEN: You know, the continuity of history from your role in the SDI until today is fascinating. One aspect of it is, when you proposed the SDI, it was an economic question, and the Soviet system had to study the economic implications of what you were saying, at the time that Reagan announced it. And later, we were to find out that there was an entire study group inside the Russian Academy of Sciences, led by Academician Dmitri Lvov, who was studying your economic system in the 1980s, behind the Iron Curtain! When the Iron Curtain comes down, and the Soviet system collapses, they're the first people to contact you; they invite you to Russia and say, "we studied your economic ideas and they're absolutely right!"
And then your interaction with them and with other people in the Russian intelligentsia is what sets the stage for your relationship with Clinton. And the provocation to Clinton that you made, that we need a New Bretton Woods, a new financial architecture, which he responded to after the Russian bond crisis.
OGDEN: So that continuity is all the way to the present day.
LAROUCHE: That is the question, if you want to do something in life, make it useful. [laughter]
OGDEN: Right! Absolutely.
LAROUCHE: And that's what makes me happy.
OGDEN: Well, I'm going to invite anybody on the call to add anything. If there's nothing to add, I'm going to bring a conclusion to our discussion today. And again, on behalf of the entire Policy Committee, we wish you a very happy birthday, Lyn.
LAROUCHE: Thank you!